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Thread: Official AVfM Policy on people in crisis or suicidal

  1. #11
    Hi dmschlom, haven't seen you for a little while. Glad your back.

    It would take very little scratching to see how feminist ideology has infected mental health care. The expansion of CTOs is about being able to medicate 'toxic masculinity' without any due process. The figures are shocking when one examines them.

    I met one young man who was litteraly tortured with a chemical castration, and only when he put a gun in his mouth and blew away a large peice of his face would the psychiatrist change his medication.

    I feel strongly about this policy, and i am sure that Mr Elam must have struggled with it. I hope that as the mens rights movement grows that alternative services are developed, particularly where divorce procedings are involved. Its a killing machine to me.

  2. #12
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    From the responses seen here, it seems a more humanistic approach to men's mental health issues (as opposed to a flawed medicalised model) would be desirable, is this an accurate assessment?

    Regarding ideological clinical approaches to "toxic masculinity", one solution would be to aid men to find healthy outlets to channel anger and aggression which are empowering rather than self-destructive, and instead of resorting to harmful approaches such as chemical castration which are more appropriate on domestic animals rather than human beings (except arguably in the most extreme circumstances and with considerable due process).

  3. #13
    Oh interesting. I did not know what you meant by CTO's, so I googled it.

    http://www.justiceaction.org.au/cms/...nt%20order.pdf

    So a CTO is a process whereby a person is very quickly or summarily arrested and forcibly hospitalized.

    I wonder is the underlying motive gynocentrism and man hate? Or is it healthcare profits?

    In which case, if I were a healthcare CEO, I would be so annoyed at the thought of having to limit myself to using CTO's for ONLY toxic masculinity, when so much more money can be made by using it for other purposes as well.

    How much more money could be made, for instance, if rape victims - both male and female - were automatically CTO'ed, provided that the rapist was kind enough so as to forcibly introduce crystal meth into his/her victim's systems, all so as to ensure they leave his/her house visibly intoxicated?

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mequa View Post
    From the responses seen here, it seems a more humanistic approach to men's mental health issues (as opposed to a flawed medicalised model) would be desirable, is this an accurate assessment?

    Regarding ideological clinical approaches to "toxic masculinity", one solution would be to aid men to find healthy outlets to channel anger and aggression which are empowering rather than self-destructive, and instead of resorting to harmful approaches such as chemical castration which are more appropriate on domestic animals rather than human beings (except arguably in the most extreme circumstances and with considerable due process).
    For me, and based on my own experiences, yes Mequa. If the figures I have seen regarding suicide and the family court are anything to go by, something is drastically wrong in that system for men. There is obviously a significant overlap where family court and mental health services are concerned. And yet I can find virtually no research on the topic.

    With regard 'toxic masculinity' I have spoken to numerous female patients who state that males are dealt with so harshly in the system. Nothing that anyone on this site wouldn't recognise immediately, but it's one place that the issue seems to be magnified. I have personally witnessed two women tearing each others hair out and scratching at each others faces with virtually no consequences. A male need only raise his voice to be locked in isolation and drugged.

    Still, what i am fully aware of is that this is being done out of the public gaze, and that the complaints process is more weaponised that the police. Without any accountability, it really is a case of while the cats away, the mice are turning to rats.

    The myth of a chemical cure for mental illness based on the disease model is most certainly flawed. And yet this myth persists in the community.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dmschlom View Post
    Oh interesting. I did not know what you meant by CTO's, so I googled it.

    http://www.justiceaction.org.au/cms/...nt%20order.pdf

    So a CTO is a process whereby a person is very quickly or summarily arrested and forcibly hospitalized.

    I wonder is the underlying motive gynocentrism and man hate? Or is it healthcare profits?

    In which case, if I were a healthcare CEO, I would be so annoyed at the thought of having to limit myself to using CTO's for ONLY toxic masculinity, when so much more money can be made by using it for other purposes as well.

    How much more money could be made, for instance, if rape victims - both male and female - were automatically CTO'ed, provided that the rapist was kind enough so as to forcibly introduce crystal meth into his/her victim's systems, all so as to ensure they leave his/her house visibly intoxicated?
    No dmschlom, Community Treatment Orders are a way to restrict a person living in the community. Usually involves attending the hospital for Depot injections weekly. Like a short leash. It cuts out the need for infrastructure, but can be used to cast a wide net and forcibly drug people without their consent. The use of them has exploded here in Australia, so much so that they are looking at giving doctors the powers of psychiatrists without any psychiatric training. They need people to write up tickets basically, because the psychiatrists can't keep up.

    It effectively removes a persons civil rights, based on nothing more than an opinion of a (feminist?) psychiatrist.

    There seems to have been a wave of legislation that is eroding civil rights at a rapid rate. Our new Muslim Hygiene Act (being facetious here, anti terror laws), anti association laws, joint enterprise laws in the UK, and a huge expansion of powers under the Mental Health Acts.

    I think that gynocentrism, and healthcare profits can co exist. two birds, one stone.
    Last edited by nawotsme; 09-04-2014 at 02:19 PM.

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by nawotsme View Post
    No dmschlom, Community Treatment Orders are a way to restrict a person living in the community. Usually involves attending the hospital for Depot injections weekly. Like a short leash. It cuts out the need for infrastructure, but can be used to cast a wide net and forcibly drug people without their consent. The use of them has exploded here in Australia, so much so that they are looking at giving doctors the powers of psychiatrists without any psychiatric training. They need people to write up tickets basically, because the psychiatrists can't keep up.

    It effectively removes a persons civil rights, based on nothing more than an opinion of a (feminist?) psychiatrist.

    There seems to have been a wave of legislation that is eroding civil rights at a rapid rate. Our new Muslim Hygiene Act (being facetious here, anti terror laws), anti association laws, joint enterprise laws in the UK, and a huge expansion of powers under the Mental Health Acts.

    I think that gynocentrism, and healthcare profits can co exist. two birds, one stone.
    This is totalitarian. The US, I think, is slightly different from that.

    I do know one thing, though. Schizophrenia is diagnosed in blacks at a rate four times that of whites -- that's proof of massive fraud. However, in the USA, if you pay attention to all sorts of media outlets here, there are the beginnings of a backlash against conventional psychiatry. In the Wall Street Journal, in the New York Times, and in all sorts of other places. I recall reading in the New York Times someone writing an op ed where they said they noted that a study of recent (as of maybe year ago) NYT articles on psychiatry showed an unprecedented number of articles criticizing the mental health system. Modern psychiatry, in its current form in the USA, is on the verge of being declared a scientifically bankrupt and obsolete field.

  7. #17
    I recall you saying that you had read Whittakers Anatomy of an Epidemic.

    It's complex, but what concerns me is this.

    Psychiatry historically has always been a tool of oppression and social control. Not the only function it serves but it has certainly been done. Gays, Germany during WWII, Russia, even the Mad Dog Ghadafi used psychitrists to silence his rape victims.

    If (and I emphasise this if), our government and large corporations have been gradually infected with feminist ideology via the process described by Gramsci, what uses would psychiatry be put to? Medicating men for being men? Medicating boys for being boys? Would the paths of treatment differ for men and women? And if so, how?

    A question arises for me about the rates of diagnosis of schizophrenia among blacks you describe above. What is the percentage of male and females? I know when I look for such data it is very rarely available. Might just be my suspicious nature but there are certain areas that one can not get a breakdown by gender where it would be vital, and very revealing. I'm not implying a direct conspiracy, but I find data lacking in certain areas where it would demonstrate a gender bias against men. Where a gender bias against women is concerned it usually makes front page news.

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by nawotsme View Post
    I recall you saying that you had read Whittakers Anatomy of an Epidemic.

    It's complex, but what concerns me is this.

    Psychiatry historically has always been a tool of oppression and social control. Not the only function it serves but it has certainly been done. Gays, Germany during WWII, Russia, even the Mad Dog Ghadafi used psychitrists to silence his rape victims.

    If (and I emphasise this if), our government and large corporations have been gradually infected with feminist ideology via the process described by Gramsci, what uses would psychiatry be put to? Medicating men for being men? Medicating boys for being boys? Would the paths of treatment differ for men and women? And if so, how?

    A question arises for me about the rates of diagnosis of schizophrenia among blacks you describe above. What is the percentage of male and females? I know when I look for such data it is very rarely available. Might just be my suspicious nature but there are certain areas that one can not get a breakdown by gender where it would be vital, and very revealing. I'm not implying a direct conspiracy, but I find data lacking in certain areas where it would demonstrate a gender bias against men. Where a gender bias against women is concerned it usually makes front page news.
    I am not sure if there is much disparity between males and females. That's because they diagnose huge numbers of the male population in prison with something -- and put them on drugs. Except, I think a lot of that is nothing other than payoffs to pharmaceutical companies who donate to politicians. And, the black women who get diagnosed merely get diagnosed ON THE OUTSIDE.

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dmschlom View Post
    I am not sure if there is much disparity between males and females. That's because they diagnose huge numbers of the male population in prison with something -- and put them on drugs. Except, I think a lot of that is nothing other than payoffs to pharmaceutical companies who donate to politicians. And, the black women who get diagnosed merely get diagnosed ON THE OUTSIDE.
    There is certainly moves in psychiatry to get a big slice of the prison pie. So much so that here where I live they want to build a new psychiatric hospital within the confines of a prison. A lot of folk have been duped with the 'chemical imbalance' myth, and believing that the drugs they are feeding people are 'medications'. Once your labelled and hooked on the drugs, if you try and stop taking them then the symptoms of withdrawal are used to label the person with more mental illness, and thus require more drugs. Huge profits to be made, and a market the local crack dealers could only dream of having lol.

  10. #20
    I am with Nawotsme here. I have had extensive psychiatric treatment in the past and my experience of psychiatric professionals is that they are brutally unsympathetic, especially the female ones. It is one of the primary reasons that I am here.

    However, I respect the new policy and the reasons behind it. In an ideal world we would be able to help these people. But we are not living in an ideal world.

    Perhaps we could have a prominent headline somewhere on the main page that suicidal men would see when they first get here, directing them to the relevant policy statement?

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