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Thread: Political Ideology

  1. #2501
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
    I don't disagree. What I will posit, even though I'm not a proponent of TARP, is that the stakes were much higher on a scale. I don't see this as a mutually exclusive discussion. How we address our safety net and care for our disadvantaged is directly dependent upon the health of our economy. One does not come at the expense of the other IMO.

    I think I pointed out, if my research on the topic is accurate, that the TARP monies have been recovered to the treasury. "TARP recovered funds totaling $441.7 billion from $426.4 billion invested."

    So you know where I'm coming from. I have fewer issues with our social safety net in the discretionary budget, I think we can all agree it is small potatoes, and it should be managed to ensure it takes care of our most needy and not be abused. My major concern right now is for our entitlement programs; SS and medicare. They are currently unsustainable and need to be addressed.

    Note: I view TARP as a bandaid fix to the fundamental problems I explained earlier.

    GOM--

    I have no fault with your historical accuracy.

    But I think we can practically-- not absolutely-- point to the bogusness of TARP by the simple fact that they did not distribute the money to the distressed homeowners who were under water-- who would have simply used it to then turn over to the bank, which would have helped out TWO constituencies for the same dollar. And in fact, one could quite comfortably (and righteously) argue BETTER DESERVED that dollar since they were the ones ultimately having to dig deep to scrape it up to hand over to the banks. The *CONSUMERS* saved the banks and basically got shit on for doing it.

    I view TARP as a money grab by people who already had plenty at the expense of people who were desperate and in line to lose their homes.

    I don't mind helping out those in need, but not at the expense of those who *really* need it.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.

  2. #2502
    Administrator Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_e View Post
    GOM--

    I have no fault with your historical accuracy.

    But I think we can practically-- not absolutely-- point to the bogusness of TARP by the simple fact that they did not distribute the money to the distressed homeowners who were under water-- who would have simply used it to then turn over to the bank, which would have helped out TWO constituencies for the same dollar. And in fact, one could quite comfortably (and righteously) argue BETTER DESERVED that dollar since they were the ones ultimately having to dig deep to scrape it up to hand over to the banks. The *CONSUMERS* saved the banks and basically got shit on for doing it.

    I view TARP as a money grab by people who already had plenty at the expense of people who were desperate and in line to lose their homes.

    I don't mind helping out those in need, but not at the expense of those who *really* need it.
    Again, I don't disagree. I actually lived in the first housing bubble crash in California in the early 90s. A prelude to the 2008 debacle. Back then, there was a fever of over purchasing and speculative investment with the idea that housing was only going to increase in value. Arms were a big draw. I did not play that game at the time realizing it was a fools game. I came out of that bubble and the 2008 bubble well ahead. the challenge is delineating who was caught up in the debacle simply focusing on their ability to pay and have a home within their means and those who took a more speculative approach. The later I have no sympathy for.

    Then there are those who speculated on multiple homes and suddenly they were victims demanding recompense on the backs of real people wth problems. I have no sympathy for those either.

    So this leaves us with the question; how many of those who lost their asses were simple folk living within their means, and how many were those caught up in the fever, lost their asses, and are riding the tide of the tragedy of the first. I don't know the answer and don't believe anyone really does. What I can guess is the former is a small proportion of the mass based on the size of the bubble.

    Frankly, there were and are a number of programs to assist those honest brokers... TARP was a separate deal and again on does not operate at the exclusion of the other.
    ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
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  3. #2503
    Here's an atheist that I can agree with in many ways... particularly with the effects on taxation as forced altruism, and not healthy for a society.

    Ephesians 5 "Husbands, Love your wives like Christ loved the Church". (Wives, give your husbands something to love).
    "Wives, RESPECT your husbands". (Husbands, give your wives something to respect.)

    For a man does not truly feel loved unless his wife, mother, and children display respect to him.

    "From each MAN according to his abilty, to each WOMAN according to her need"... Allison Tienemann

    "Feminism is a HATE group... Feminists are HATEFUL people"... Mr. e

    "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."... Ronald Reagan


  4. #2504
    unfortunately, we now are enjoying the dubious benefits of ZIRP

    and those low rates havent encouraged growth. Businesses are still borrowing less.

    Meanwhile, the home owner casino is back with a vengeance.
    Well maybe not quite in the US but here in Oz, its outta control.
    People are treating their homes as investments and using them as a backstop to fund their lifestyle choices.
    Its all Audi and shares in SNAP here.

    I paid 17.45% in the 90's for an unlivable dog-box.
    The thing is I paid 90k which was something like 3x my earnings.
    The same house now is in the order of $1M ... which is like 10x earnings.
    Blind Freddy can see the cliff.

    right now, everybody wants ion the gravy train and mum and dad investors own multiple houses
    Superannuation funds, including self managed, are still buying up both domestic and commercial.

    There are housing bubbles from Hanoi to Hanover ... and no grow in either gdp, pmi, or wages.
    even at 4.5% the highly leveraged are going to have cash-flow problems in the near future.

    This feels a lot like 1989 to me and, in my opinion, will not end well.
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    “Never approach a bull from the front, a horse from the rear, or a fool from any direction.” -Unknown

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

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