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Thread: Political Ideology

  1. #1501
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    I deleted that post because I think we've reached an impasse, but you took bits of it out of context and quoted it?
    How did I take them out of context?


    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    Think I'm realizing why forums built in an "ignore" feature.
    Does this forum have one? I would have used it on Maxx and theplummer long ago.

    You are just now starting to edge onto that list, which is disappointing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    "Don't you admit that there are problems with capitalism? [if you say yes, you're a Commie!]"

    Do I really need to break this down? Seriously?

    I suppose that someone who is completely ignorant of economic theory, but has subscribed to Capitalism, on faith (making it a religious belief), could then be convinced to subscribe to Communism on faith. Easy solution: Actually teach people economics. Drawback: People will actually know economics and understand that Capitalism, like every system, has advantages and disadvantages, and so will not follow propaganda based solely on the advantages.

    This would pretty much kill the Tea Party.
    I don't get it.

    Who ever said that there aren't any disadvantages to capitalism?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post

    "Progressives don't compromise"

    This is hilariously wrong; progressives compromise all the time, it's conservatives who use the "my way or the highway" philosophy (most notably George W. Bush). The criticism of liberals/progressives is that their minds can be so open that their brains fall out; they compromise too easily.
    Ummm it's assholes who don't compromise. That's not a liberal vs conservative thing.

    Compromising isn't inherently bad or good anyway.

    Personally I think it's bad that many liberals refuse to compromise on reproductive rights or even allow for an open discussion on fathers rights vs abortion rights etc but then when it comes it comes to Islam they bend over backwards to accommodate that ideology call anyone who doesn't bend over along with them a bigot and racist and then start bitching and moaning when muslims down the street from them start cutting up their own daughter's vaginas.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    "We want to remove the 2nd amendment"

    This is an extreme minority opinion even on the far left, and gun control is an excellent example of both compromise (the assault weapon ban was not renewed because it was obviously ineffective, which also shoots down the "slippery slope" argument he is setting up.) and how the parties change sides on issues (The GOP started the push for gun control back in the 60s).
    Umm no it's not an extreme minority. Do you ever watch CNN in the aftermath of a mass shooting?

    The liberal media almost exclusively covers such stories within a wider context of a gun control narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    "Remove people on terror watch list from buying guns"

    That was a Republican proposal.
    Meh.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    "We get a slow shift toward Progressivism."

    No, this is a complete and total misunderstanding of the dialectic; we don't get a shift towards Progressivism, we get slow progress. As an example, waiting periods are no longer "Progressive" because, while they were necessary 30 years ago, they are unnecessary today because of technology. If someone tried to introduce a bill for waiting periods today, it would not be "Progressive" at all; it was an example of progress at the time, but it's time has passed.
    What the fuck are you talking about?

    Only blind idiot progressives themselves actually think that progressive ideology and policy is always simply synonymous with 'progress' itself.

    Progressivism is an ideology. So the quote is talking about slow shift towards an IDEOLOGY -

    One founded on the basic idea that all change is inherently good. And that compromising on this is simple not negotiable. (see above).

    So a slow shift towards progressivism is a shift towards the over-riding ideology that ALL change is good. That if the change isn't being implemented quickly enough it's because 'progress is slow'. If that change isn't working as intended it can't be because the progressive idea that informed it was flawed it must be because it hasn't been funded enough or hasn't been enabled by enacting yet more change in the law and constitution. The answer the problems caused by change is always drum roll please...MORE CHANGE.

    Just whatever you do never question the ideology itself. That's PROGRESSIVISM.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    "If laws restricting abortion are an undue burden, how is it that restricting gun ownership, which is a constitutional right, when you have not been convicted of any crime, how is that OK?"

    Again, that was a Republican proposal, but I will grant that the Democrats have done the same thing in the past; you can't lay the blame solely at the feet of Democrats or Progressives, though. I'm pretty liberal/progressive, but I oppose most gun control, while many conservatives support it.
    What are you fucking talking about now? If you wanna play that game the Democrats should take full responsibility for slavery and the KKK.

    Everyone knows that basically liberals tend to want more 'reproductive rights' exclusively for women including free abortions etc. And less rights for gun owners.

    Yes not every Liberal not every conservative, but surely you get the basic point and are just being a douche for the heck of it?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    "There may come a time when speaking out against the government becomes a crime."

    Absolutely; examples from history: Nazi Germany (fascist), the U.S.S.R. (Communist), Chile under Pinochet (Capitalist). No political ideology has either a monopoly on or immunity from authoritarianism.
    The Nazis were NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

    Just sayin'

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post

    "You might wind up on a list."

    You mean like Nixon's White House Official Enemies List? Yea, that's a problem, although still nothing compared to Japanese internment during WWII, which, if the war had started going badly for us, might have turned out rather differently...
    Forget Nixon dude. TODAY people are getting hounded out of their jobs for holding politically incorrect opinions. There is trial by media happening on the daily and it's not the right that's spearheading that it's the left.


    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    "The most anti-American group today is our own congress... they're doing more to regress us into a state of Tyranny..."

    And I would agree; there are almost no Progressives or Socialists in congress, though! Even most Democrats are either moderate or conservative; Bernie Sanders was the first Progressive assault on the presidential nomination since George McGovern in '72, and you saw what the party establishment did to him.

    Incidentally, Bernie was moderate on gun control, for the exact reasons stated in the video: It is a constitutional right.
    There aren't any socialists because to most smart people not sticking their heads in the sand about the harm caused by socialist ideology in various countries throughout history socialist has become a dirty word.

    There are plenty of progressives though. Because progressive is the code work for collectivist socialist bullshit smuggled under people's radars in the name of progress and liberty.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    If you cannot read or hear something that disagrees with you without making a moral value judgement against the person making the statement, then you are implicitly placing your moral sensibility ahead of your logic and reason;
    You mean like what you do when you put words in my mouth claim I want to behead people and force my religion or other views upon them? Stuff like that?

    You mean like you do when you attack me personal and brand me some bible-thumping hick because you lack the capacity to properly listen to absorb and respond to any of the things I actually say or think?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    you are biasing yourself against any proposition that might cause you to change your mind. This is what the argument between Diedre and I was about; do you base your opinions on the facts in front of you, or do you judge the facts by how they agree with your opinions?
    You kinda how when people point out various horros committed by socialist regimes and tyrants you judge those facts and reject them because they conflict with your opinions.

    Deciding instead to cling to notion that all the 'bad' socialists and communists simply weren't 'real' socialists and communists.


    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    And maybe my problem is related: I used to believe that conservatives think that way but that liberals/progressives do not, and so tended to define things that way, when plenty of liberals and progressives can be every bit as closed-minded as any conservative.
    Hahaha. Are you kidding me? Liberals are the most closed minded people on earth.

    Go to a dinner party full of liberals...

    Express opposition to gay marriage, state funded abortion or feminism see how that shit works out for ya?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post

    This does not invalidate the basic theory, though, for two reasons:

    1. Liberal parents can have conservative children; their baseline values, then, are based on the progressive values of the previous generation, as opposed to the many generations back that traditionally conservative families can have.

    2. People change. My father was a firebrand liberal, 50 years ago, but has a hard time changing his mind about things. I am just now getting him turned around on gun control (20 years of declining violent crime, and his own age and consequential burgeoning respect for the Euthanasia movement had a lot to do with it), and we cannot even have a discussion on nuclear power without it turning into a holler.

    And, of course, there are mixtures and differences on different issues, etc.

    All I do know is that anyone who tries to make litmus tests for being a liberal or conservative, or who thinks that all of politics can all be reduced to a 10 minute Youtube video, is almost assuredly wrong.
    There are reductive idiots on both sides of the political divide. The trick is not being one. You have some ways to go.
    Last edited by Maxx; 08-08-2016 at 12:53 PM.
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  3. #1503
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    Does this forum have one? I would have used it on Maxx and theplummer long ago.

    You are just now starting to edge onto that list, which is disappointing.
    You don't need an ignore feature. You ignore everything I ever actually say or believe just fine without it champ
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    I don't get it.

    Who ever said that there aren't any disadvantages to capitalism?
    The guy in that video; or at least, he said that you can't admit it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Ummm it's assholes who don't compromise. That's not a liberal vs conservative thing.

    Compromising isn't inherently bad or good anyway.

    Personally I think it's bad that many liberals refuse to compromise on reproductive rights or even allow for an open discussion on fathers rights vs abortion rights etc but then when it comes it comes to Islam they bend over backwards to accommodate that ideology call anyone who doesn't bend over along with them a bigot and racist and then start bitching and moaning when muslims down the street from them start cutting up their own daughter's vaginas.
    I see it differently; absolutely, compromise is necessary, but too much compromise is as bad as none at all.

    Issues:

    Abortion - What do you mean that there isn't any compromise? States can ban late term abortion, force women to watch propaganda videos and undergo unnecessary and invasive procedures before getting an abortion, force doctors to jump through unnecessary hoops in order to do their jobs....

    What compromise, exactly, are you looking for?

    As for liberals vs conservatives, I don't see anyone on the right arguing for men's rights, either.

    As for Muslims, they are covered by the exact same laws that prevent Christians from forcing their religion on people; if they try to put a statue of the Koran on a courthouse lawn, we will be out protesting it just as fervently as any 10 commandment display.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Umm no it's not an extreme minority. Do you ever watch CNN in the aftermath of a mass shooting?

    The liberal media almost exclusively covers such stories within a wider context of a gun control narrative.
    Laughable. Polls consistently show 90+% support for the 2nd Amendment; 80% support for background checks and such, but very few people are completely against guns.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Meh.
    "Meh," what? It was. Many Democrats supported it, but gun control has never been a strictly partisan issue.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    What the fuck are you talking about?

    Only blind idiot progressives themselves actually think that progressive ideology and policy is always simply synonymous with 'progress' itself.

    Progressivism is an ideology. So the quote is talking about slow shift towards an IDEOLOGY -

    One founded on the basic idea that all change is inherently good. And that compromising on this is simple not negotiable. (see above).

    So a slow shift towards progressivism is a shift towards the over-riding ideology that ALL change is good. That if the change isn't being implemented quickly enough it's because 'progress is slow'. If that change isn't working as intended it can't be because the progressive idea that informed it was flawed it must be because it hasn't been funded enough or hasn't been enabled by enacting yet more change in the law and constitution. The answer the problems caused by change is always drum roll please...MORE CHANGE.

    Just whatever you do never question the ideology itself. That's PROGRESSIVISM.
    What the fuck are you reading? How did you possibly get that impression from what I wrote?

    Yes, Progressivism is an ideology; it's basic tenet is that, overall, things tend to get better. This does not say that all change is good.

    And we do not "achieve" progressivism, we achieve PROGRESS. That more and more people tend to follow the ideology that things get better..... is exactly in line with the ideology.

    It also requires that you constantly question it; that's how it is different from conservatism.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    What are you fucking talking about now? If you wanna play that game the Democrats should take full responsibility for slavery and the KKK.
    Things that happened last month are not comparable to things that happened last century.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Everyone knows that basically liberals tend to want more 'reproductive rights' exclusively for women including free abortions etc. And less rights for gun owners.
    Really? I don't know that; the polls don't know that. Democrats around here tend to be pro-choice and pro-gun, while Republicans in other areas of the country are the opposite.

    It's regional, not partisan.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Yes not every Liberal not every conservative, but surely you get the basic point and are just being a douche for the heck of it?
    Oh, I get the point, I just don't accept it. It is demonstrably untrue.



    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    The Nazis were NATIONAL SOCIALISTS.

    Just sayin'
    North Korea calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea; that means they're a democracy, right?

    Yes, the Nazis used the word, "socialist," because it had positive connotations at the time; their ideology was in no way based on socialism, though.




    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Forget Nixon dude. TODAY people are getting hounded out of their jobs for holding politically incorrect opinions. There is trial by media happening on the daily and it's not the right that's spearheading that it's the left.
    Really? I don't see that at all; I see corporate conservatives using the issue to screw things up as much as possible so they can point to the problem and say, "See?! This is what happens when you do things that we don't like!

    Incidentally, who, exactly, is supposed to protect us from corporations firing us for holding opinions that they don't like? That would be the government. No one else can do anything about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    There aren't any socialists because to most smart people not sticking their heads in the sand about the harm caused by socialist ideology in various countries throughout history socialist has become a dirty word.

    There are plenty of progressives though. Because progressive is the code work for collectivist socialist bullshit smuggled under people's radars in the name of progress and liberty.
    No, there are neither many socialists nor progressives in congress, and the reason is that both parties have been taken over by corporate conservatives and refuse to allow such people into government. Hillary Clinton is "progressive" on exactly two issues: Abortion and gay rights. Who fucking cares? Those are way down the list of important issues facing the country. On everything else, the TPP and free trade, restricting civil liberties, starting pointless wars around the globe, she is in lockstep with both the Republicans and Democrats.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    You mean like what you do when you put words in my mouth claim I want to behead people and force my religion or other views upon them? Stuff like that?

    You mean like you do when you attack me personal and brand me some bible-thumping hick because you lack the capacity to properly listen to absorb and respond to any of the things I actually say or think?
    No; nothing like that. I never said that you want to behead people, but you do want to force your religious views on people; why else are we having this argument?

    And I have repeatedly replied to you in exactly this fashion, responding to each of your points, and all you give me back is garbage.




    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    You kinda how when people point out various horros committed by socialist regimes and tyrants you judge those facts and reject them because they conflict with your opinions.

    Deciding instead to cling to notion that all the 'bad' socialists and communists simply weren't 'real' socialists and communists.
    On the contrary; I acknowledge them and note them as cautionary tales. You're the one who wants to ignore all of the atrocities committed by capitalist/right wing regimes and tyrants, then argue that they weren't "real" Capitalists.


    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    Hahaha. Are you kidding me? Liberals are the most closed minded people on earth.

    Go to a dinner party full of liberals...

    Express opposition to gay marriage, state funded abortion or feminism see how that shit works out for ya?
    I do, regularly; well, not the opposition to gay marriage or abortion (and there is no state funding for abortion in the USA!), but I regularly criticize feminism, gun control laws, solar and wind energy, and more, and I'll tell you right now that I get a MUCH better reception from liberals on those issues than I do from conservatives about anything. Even my stance on gun control gets me yelled at by right-wingers as not being pro-gun enough.

    And again, where are the conservatives talking about men's rights? Liberals are all hung up on women's rights, but conservatives just don't give a damn about either gender's rights.



    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    There are reductive idiots on both sides of the political divide. The trick is not being one. You have some ways to go.
    If that's the comparison, then you haven't even started on the path.

  5. #1505
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    The guy in that video; or at least, he said that you can't admit it.
    No one here has claimed capitalism has no disadvantages.


    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post

    I see it differently; absolutely, compromise is necessary, but too much compromise is as bad as none at all.

    Issues:

    Abortion - What do you mean that there isn't any compromise? States can ban late term abortion, force women to watch propaganda videos and undergo unnecessary and invasive procedures before getting an abortion, force doctors to jump through unnecessary hoops in order to do their jobs....

    What compromise, exactly, are you looking for?
    'Her body her choice' is the standard liberal/feminist position on the issue. It's not open to negotiation as far most liberals and feminists are concerned.

    There's no compromise on that position despite the fact that it has a corresponding impact on a number of other issues and people.

    Women are allowed to abort children a man might want to have.
    Women are allowed to not abort children that a man might not want or have children they cannot afford and get the state to pay for it.

    Now compromise would begin with something approaching a sensible mature conversation on the issue that takes into account the right to life of the child concerned first and foremost, the rights of the father who is involved and impact by the woman's choice, the tax payer who is involved in the process too.

    Things like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    As for liberals vs conservatives, I don't see anyone on the right arguing for men's rights, either.
    MOST people arguing for men's rights are to the right of center.

    Unless by arguing 'for men's rights' you mean calling for a load more state sponsored men's rights crap to rival all the state sponsored feminist crap there already is for women folk.

    By that definition then no, no one 'on the right' is arguing 'for' men's rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    As for Muslims, they are covered by the exact same laws that prevent Christians from forcing their religion on people; if they try to put a statue of the Koran on a courthouse lawn, we will be out protesting it just as fervently as any 10 commandment display.
    What about their right to cut up their own daughter's vaginas?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    Laughable. Polls consistently show 90+% support for the 2nd Amendment; 80% support for background checks and such, but very few people are completely against guns.
    What's your point? That the gun control debate doesn't divide along party lines?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    "Meh," what? It was. Many Democrats supported it, but gun control has never been a strictly partisan issue.
    Oh ok.


    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    What the fuck are you reading? How did you possibly get that impression from what I wrote?

    Yes, Progressivism is an ideology; it's basic tenet is that, overall, things tend to get better. This does not say that all change is good.

    And we do not "achieve" progressivism, we achieve PROGRESS. That more and more people tend to follow the ideology that things get better..... is exactly in line with the ideology.

    It also requires that you constantly question it; that's how it is different from conservatism.
    I don't think you have any idea what conservatism actually is. I mean not even slightly.

    If I didn't question things I wouldn't be a conservative I'd be a liberal.
    If I didn't question things I wouldn't be anti-feminist I'd be a feminist.

    You make a lot of absurdly flawed presumptions and just lay them down like facts.

    'Conservatives don't question things'? Where the hell did you get that notion from. Did some left wing progressive professor some place tell you it and you didn't stop to question it for yourself or set it against the truth of your lived experience.

    The irony is priceless.

    Most people are unquestioning, that goes for most liberals and conservatives alike.

    Actually thinking is hard work.


    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    Things that happened last month are not comparable to things that happened last century.
    Riiight. But all wars ever started in history by kings and emperors in the middle ages and before were down to capitalism? Gotcha.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    Really? I don't know that; the polls don't know that. Democrats around here tend to be pro-choice and pro-gun, while Republicans in other areas of the country are the opposite.

    It's regional, not partisan.
    If you say so.


    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post

    Oh, I get the point, I just don't accept it. It is demonstrably untrue.
    Accept it isn't.


    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    North Korea calls itself the Democratic People's Republic of Korea; that means they're a democracy, right?

    Yes, the Nazis used the word, "socialist," because it had positive connotations at the time; their ideology was in no way based on socialism, though.
    It was very literally based on national socialism....

    The national body being seen as the supreme collective entity. That's why you do your duty and call the SS on the family next door, that's why you reproduce with SS men if you are unmarried woman and have a working womb. That's why you hand your disabled family members over to the state so they can harvest their organs or use them for experiments or whatever.

    Because the integrity of no individuals body actually matters. Everyone is duty bound to serve the needs of the collective in whatever capacity they can. No individuals no individual rights, ONLY what's in the best interests of socialist nation.

    Hence national socialism.

    But yes. You are right I'm wrong. 'wrong' kind of socialism. Gotcha.
    Last edited by Maxx; 08-08-2016 at 02:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    Really? I don't see that at all; I see corporate conservatives using the issue to screw things up as much as possible so they can point to the problem and say, "See?! This is what happens when you do things that we don't like!

    Incidentally, who, exactly, is supposed to protect us from corporations firing us for holding opinions that they don't like? That would be the government. No one else can do anything about it.
    hahahahaha. You really are a hoot.

    IF your government is protecting your right to speak in the face of your private employer it's ONLY ever going to be because you are saying something your government wants you to!

    Holy cow.

    Obvious statement is obvious.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    No, there are neither many socialists nor progressives in congress, and the reason is that both parties have been taken over by corporate conservatives and refuse to allow such people into government. Hillary Clinton is "progressive" on exactly two issues: Abortion and gay rights. Who fucking cares? Those are way down the list of important issues facing the country. On everything else, the TPP and free trade, restricting civil liberties, starting pointless wars around the globe, she is in lockstep with both the Republicans and Democrats.
    There are no progressives in congress...?

    Okkkaaaay.

    Every time you think you see one, it's just a trick of the light! Who knew.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    No; nothing like that. I never said that you want to behead people, but you do want to force your religious views on people; why else are we having this argument?
    What view have I ever forced on you or anyone else?

    I mean I would like you to accept and acknowledge that the Nazis were national socialists. But that's hardly a religious view.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    And I have repeatedly replied to you in exactly this fashion, responding to each of your points, and all you give me back is garbage.
    Feeling's mutual.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    On the contrary; I acknowledge them and note them as cautionary tales. You're the one who wants to ignore all of the atrocities committed by capitalist/right wing regimes and tyrants, then argue that they weren't "real" Capitalists.
    Well, I think it's fair to say my definition of socialist and communist regimes is a little narrower than your definition of capitalist ones.

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    I do, regularly; well, not the opposition to gay marriage or abortion (and there is no state funding for abortion in the USA!),
    What do you mean there is no state funding for abortion? What is planned parenthood exactly?

    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    but I regularly criticize feminism, gun control laws, solar and wind energy, and more, and I'll tell you right now that I get a MUCH better reception from liberals on those issues than I do from conservatives about anything. Even my stance on gun control gets me yelled at by right-wingers as not being pro-gun enough.

    And again, where are the conservatives talking about men's rights? Liberals are all hung up on women's rights, but conservatives just don't give a damn about either gender's rights.
    Here's the thing with you. You don't seem to grasp the idea of advocacy outside of a state-solution centered paradigm.

    So when you observe that liberals support feminist shit and conservatives reject the notion of state-solutions to individual issues and problems like divorce and marriage and family law and employment law and helping the 'needy' and all that shit you conclude that conservatives don't care about 'either gender's rights'.

    Because you understand 'rights' exclusively as things the government GIVES people.

    You don't seem to ever even factor the right to live FREE of excessive government interference into your personal and professional life as a right actually worth having, never mind the most important and valuable right of all!

    You seem to mistakenly think that conservatives don't believe in things that they don't believe should be the reserve or prerogative of government.

    I believe in charity...as in helping out people you know who are in need. I don't believe in STATE welfare.

    I believe in protecting women...as in women in my family and women I know. I don't believe in laws that allow women to depend upon the absolute support and might of the STATE in any private dispute against any man.

    I believe in employing the best person for the job regardless of their race. But I believe STATE enforced affirmative action hiring policies are racist and discriminatory and perpetuate the very issues they propose to combat or address.

    I believe a biological male should have the right to wear a dress and demand everyone call him 'she' if he likes. I just don't believe the STATE should be expected to protect him from the consequences of his lifestyle choices.

    See how that shit works?


    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    If that's the comparison, then you haven't even started on the path.
    Until people start thinking like you they aren't really thinking at all, huh? Gotcha.
    Last edited by Maxx; 08-08-2016 at 11:06 PM.
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  7. #1507
    another beautiful morning.

    Im sitting here on the back patio reading SST's idiotic mental gymnastics and watching the Noisy Miners fight the Wattle Birds for whatever resource(y) bug thing that is infesting the ornamental Cyprus trees

    If you look at it while they squabble it could seem that all they do is fight.
    If you watch for hours both teams actually manage to harvest enough

    funny because both birds are generally honey eaters they only sometimes take insects.
    The flowers when they're tapped for nectar get something from the exchange via pollination...the bugs?

    Nobody really stops to consider the what the bug things think about all this.
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

  8. #1508
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    Hi,

    witht he caveat that I actually don't understand all of what you are saying ...

    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    The trouble is that your position is indeed one of 'privilege'
    Not aware of any.

    in that it is built on the idea that you have some sort of frame to hold and a presumed rational purchase or influence of the particular fart that eventually issues from the dialectic lips as decree.
    What, that we don't control words once spoken?
    Or that we don't control how thoughts get worded?

    And yr first step is the real problem.
    By undertaking the discussion in the language and jargon of the 'enemy' you have already undone yourself.
    Or beaten them with their own weapons at their own game?

    And through arrogance
    Arrogant? Au contraire, mon ami - for some people, modesty would just be hypocrisy.

    it undoes everybody you claim to represent.
    Not aware that I claim to represent anyone.

    The Problem of Representation eh?
    There are several. One is political.

    The artisan's simulrca of David...is not David.
    This one is semiotic.

    Discussing Mens rights in a feminist framework and feminist language ... fail
    The only people doing that is The Good Men Project. I am not he.

    Discussing Social organization in a Marxist framework and language...fail
    "Framework and language"? Too vague.
    But as SST correctly points out, all serious discussion of society will utilize Marxian categories; without fail, actually.

    Discussion Economics or monetary policy from a collectivist orthodoxy...fail
    I live in the home-and heartland of collectivist orthodoxy.
    If we do not top them, we are usually among the top ten on rankings quality of life, happiness, wealth, education, gun ownership, lack of corruption, violence ... and so collectivist orthodoxy is surely doing better than e.g. the US. Seems a rather useful position, actually.

    M, you occasionally slip in that you are not really even a Marxist
    No, not "not really even a Marxist". Just plain "not a Marxist".

    much less a revolutionary.
    Never said that.
    It just has to be a bloody good, but not bloody, revolution, guaranteed to make things better.
    Slim odds.

    It seems though, you delight in playing devils advocate
    You make it sound as if it is a bad thhing ...?
    Idk ... what do people expect in a forum? Just applause and acolytes?
    True, I don't do accolades very much, I'm more of a field tester.
    Although I've picked up some stuff from various posters, I'm not here to receive nor to push any viewpoint.
    When people voice an opinion, and I see alternatives, I post them. Perhaps I'm right, pperhaps I'm wrong.
    In the latter case, the OP gets to pre-rehearse one counter to an attempted refutation.

    and that yr special practice is going to magically deliver or broker the correct solution.
    No, I try to supply information.
    And, sort of, yes; due to my backgound, my landscpe is not divided along e.g. US cultural frontlines,
    and so I bring an outsiders perspective. Outside at a certain point, giving a certain viewpoint, for sure.
    However, this is also more information-like than arbitration-like.

    Like the rest of your ilk (Linguists?), you reckon you can untie that Gordian Knot with your tongue.
    You may have noticed the inexhaustible use posters here make of so-called "words".
    IOW, a way with words is a useful tool in such a written forum.
    It is practically the only tooll there is.
    Even articles, sermons, links, videos, comics ... are all words, with few exceptions; just someone else's.

    Ive said it before... careful you don't catch your balls on that fence mate.
    I don't get the image here.

    The issue is not the arguments, nor wrong or right, it isnt even 'truth'
    What, then?

    M

  9. #1509
    Administrator Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    hahahahaha. You really are a hoot.

    IF your government is protecting your right to speak in the face of your private employer, it's ONLY ever going to be because you are saying something your government wants you to!

    Holy cow.

    Obvious statement is obvious.



    There are no progressives in congress...?

    Okkkaaaay.

    Every time you think you see one, it's just a trick of the light! Who knew.



    What view have I ever forced on you or anyone else?

    I mean I would like you to accept and acknowledge that the Nazis were national socialists. But that's hardly a religious view.



    Feeling's mutual.



    Well, I think it's fair to say my definition of socialist and communist regimes is a little narrower than your definition of capitalist ones.



    What do you mean there is no state funding for abortion? What is planned parenthood exactly?



    Here's the thing with you. You don't seem to grasp the idea of advocacy outside of a state-solution centered paradigm.

    So when you observe that liberals support feminist shit and conservatives reject the notion of state-solutions to individual issues and problems like divorce and marriage and family law and employment law and helping the 'needy' and all that shit you conclude that conservatives don't care about 'either gender's rights'.

    Because you understand 'rights' exclusively as things the government GIVES people.

    You don't seem to ever even factor the right to live FREE of excessive government interference into your personal and professional life as a right actually worth having, never mind the most important and valuable right of all!

    You seem to mistakenly think that conservatives don't believe in things that they don't believe should be the reserve or prerogative of government.

    I believe in charity...as in helping out people you know who are in need. I don't believe in STATE welfare.

    I believe in protecting women...as in women in my family and women I know. I don't believe in laws that allow women to depend upon the absolute support and might of the STATE in any private dispute against any man.

    I believe in employing the best person for the job regardless of their race. But I believe STATE enforced affirmative action hiring policies are racist and discriminatory and perpetuate the very issues they propose to combat or address.

    I believe a biological male should have the right to wear a dress and demand everyone call him 'she' if he likes. I just don't believe the STATE should be expected to protect him from the consequences of his lifestyle choices.

    See how that shit works?




    Until people start thinking like you they aren't really thinking at all, huh? Gotcha.
    SJWs in another suit! Same language, same tactics, same goals. Management of Outcomes vis. Equality of Opportunity, Centralized Control without an understanding...demanding we educate ourselves.

    Well, to those here who want to sell their wares I challenge them to take on the legitimate challenges to their Ideals and address their own education. Stop trying to sell the goods to those they assume have not.

    THE FATAL CONCEIT
    The Errors of Socialism
    http://www.libertarianismo.org/livros/fahtfc.pdf
    ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
    virtue of character--practical/ethical wisdom--human flourishing

    It is not a battle to win but an attitude to share.
    AVFM Mission Statement

  10. #1510
    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    I don't get the image here.
    oh, I know that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    What, then?
    here I stand.
    Where do you stand? ...or sit, as the case may be
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

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