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Thread: An open letter to Andrew.

  1. #1

    An open letter to Andrew.

    Dear Andrew.

    I hope you read this one day and know by its end I still love you.

    As you can see I did as you have asked so far. I have joined a community online where the space defined is male. You were right that they have not banned my "lesbian fanny" as you put it on that terrible camping trip. What did you call it, "The holiday of long knives"? I call it "The time of Anne of Cleavers".

    I have come to terms with you being Andrew now as it has been many years since you were Anne. One time I saw you on Crown Street emerging from the hospital with your boyfriend and I had to pull over and weep. The shock of that, and seeing your hair so short and you had lost so much weight, kept me in the car while my confused family panicked. Of course I could not tell them a thing and I forget exactly what excuse I made at the time to explain my sudden swing of mood. My heart was a bleeding nerve that wept tears of such a pain I never knew of before. That pain I know now nearly killed me and for the next two days I could not speak within the haze of Xanax and some other thing I can't remember.

    It was that day I realised you were gone and it was for the best I realise now. This letter is to tell you not how I have moved on but to let you know how I have not in some ways. I accept your decision now fully, but to know exactly why you changed is something I can't get around. I do not understand fully why you went from the sweet young woman I adored to the angry man Andrew.

    Has it been the normal ways of more wisdom that has you angry at the world, or is it because of your realisation you were born in the wrong body? I am now starting to think it really is because of the questions on the list you sent with the ultimation that I was to give and your ultimation to me if I did not give it to our sisters. You put me in a bind to give an ultimation or you'll carry out yours to me.

    You insisted I take a hard look at the sisters at the house of Bessie and I did just that. I also did as you asked and asked them the difficult questions you wrote to me to ask them and it was too much. It was too much for them and they were kind enough to listen at first (except Major who you'd expect) but then became hostile and so I capitulated. Please know I had to as my finances were at that time poor and I had nowhere else to go. I recanted and said my questions were for a literary piece only and I didn't follow through with the other where I was to give an ultimation. How could I say "read this and answer all the questions or I will turf you out?" The House of Bessie was in joint agreement on the lease and as I say I had no money anyway. Apart from anything else the Major and M were onto it right away with it coming from you and it took an unpleasant evening to finally convince them it was for a writing project for lit assessment.

    You said to me at that time that you understood that this might be the case but our hard tent was "dismantled" when you left us and all of your things were destroyed, kept by others or sold. I was given pity and a room was set aside in Bessie and could not sell anything you gave me. I was even supposed to thank them for their pity as they were so good as to accept that I wanted nothing to do with you since your breaking from the house as you did. Thank you for that gesture of your things to me anyway, and I have made my thanks to you in my unreplied emails to you should you find them again one day. (I don't know what happened to your camera equipment but I suspect the M & W duo sold them and I welled up quietly when I saw your photo albums burn with all our mattress and wooden stand with all of our lino prints. All our days on those and the book binders with other material up in flames. It was violence beyond belief and some of the "friends" were laughing which had me more isolated with my pain than I can bear to even write about now. That image will haunt me Andrew forever. H and C were kind to me and saw my pain and that did help me for a time. Being alone in my bed that night had only the walls of my room hear my real sadness.

    So as you might guess by now the "friends" we had there are all gone somewhere out of the city except B who has married of all things. She sends her love to you and knows of this letter and we have become closer than we ever were in Bessie. She also tells me that she suspects you might be living in Dubbo right now or perhaps Yass. I said to her amidst tears I admit, that you would not be in Yass as I would have heard through my closer clients who frequent Canberra with Yass as one of their other smaller towns nearby. Yass is too small a place for a loud person as yourself to not have all of the A.C.T. know about.

    Wherever you are I want you to be the loving person I knew, and am hoping this letter to you will bring me closer to that person. It's my hope that being here as you asked me through your email addy would do this. (Why did you delete that addy? My emails to there have bounced)

    So I will ask the nine questions you asked me to ask these MHRAs and I am frightened by what might come of it all the same. If I did not love you so much I would dismiss them kindly and without drama or disrespect of course, but you have forced me here by you knowing I will always be pulled along by the noise in my heart. I do not have the courage or stamina to ask all nine at one time, and you must know that when I do I will do so one at a time until I am resolved with what I hear. My resolve may or may not be my agreeing with their answers and as you say I will ask and debate and ask again. You will know when I am asking the questions on "that" list but how will I know for sure you have read my threads? Are you going to make another itinerant addy just for this purpose or will you join here and PM me? Either way I am sure you understand how I need the sound of you somewhere to give me resolve to ask the next on the list. And so they will fall by my asking them one by one with fallout in their wake, and then when six months are done I will be done here knowing more of you.

    If all goes well I will be here for six months as you stipulated. After that time I will go from here perhaps wiser or not. I was very bitter when I wrote my introduction here but was disarmed by the welcome given as you said I would be, and I will take it in increments as they come and as I give.

    Andrew. Please let us be known to each other again in some other way from what we have now become. You have at last opened the door to me and I am still wrestling with the way you have done that but that is another matter for me to work out. I do love you and it is for that reason I am here, and it is to pay you the homage you deserve for knowing you for the first time as you are now.

    Love. Trace.

  2. #2

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Only six months?

    Well I imagine, when six months passes you might find yourself changed, hopefully for the better. We aren't the bullies we are made out to be.

    I think you may be on to something we could call it the Feminist Challenge. Six months in the den of the "beast". It would be like Big Brother, except with more than 2 brain cells.

  3. #3

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus
    Only six months?

    Well I imagine, when six months passes you might find yourself changed, hopefully for the better. We aren't the bullies we are made out to be.

    I think you may be on to something we could call it the Feminist Challenge. Six months in the den of the "beast". It would be like Big Brother, except with more than 2 brain cells.
    Thank you Morpheus.

    I won't lie to you I do not like being here and I will ask the first question on "that" list in the next day or so. It won't be fun for me but love is love and I do what it says.

    It's polite I think to wait a bit until I am more read up on the forums here like My red pill story and others. Perhaps you as mod can direct me to when the best time will be?

    Regards. Tracy.

  4. #4

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Tracy, your journey to here has been tough. I want to assure you, you will stay here as long as you follow forum rules.
    On AVfM I wrote an article this week to "women lurking on the fringes" if you haven't read it I encourage you to do so, as it emphasises some important things about the anger of the men here.
    I also wanted to add, the severity of the 'othering' you received in the House of Bessie made me angry. I've been fortunate to be always certain of the love of my family so experiences of othering have not damaged my core identity. I hope there is someone to whom you can turn for that unconditional acceptance
    Aimee

  5. #5

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Quote Originally Posted by MH RAant
    Quote Originally Posted by Morpheus
    Only six months?

    Well I imagine, when six months passes you might find yourself changed, hopefully for the better. We aren't the bullies we are made out to be.

    I think you may be on to something we could call it the Feminist Challenge. Six months in the den of the "beast". It would be like Big Brother, except with more than 2 brain cells.
    Thank you Morpheus.

    I won't lie to you I do not like being here and I will ask the first question on "that" list in the next day or so. It won't be fun for me but love is love and I do what it says.

    It's polite I think to wait a bit until I am more read up on the forums here like My red pill story and others. Perhaps you as mod can direct me to when the best time will be?

    Regards. Tracy.
    Post it when ever you want,
    Today, tomorrow next week. next month.


    The way the forum works, unread posts are highlighted so most people just click through them and read all the new posts. If I am not in for a couple of days, its the easiest way to catch up to speed on things.

    As odd as it sounds, you don't need to know our stuff inside out. the Red Pill section are usually very personal, and explain how many men here ended up coming here. Usually fucked over by laws that do nothing but punish men. So I would advise to be mindful that its not a academic section. It is an absolute eye opener though.

    I think its important to challenge you views, something your doing. Keep an open mind. You might find you stay for the people and not the content.

  6. #6

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Here's a link to Aimee's article: http://www.avoiceformen.com/women/to-the-women-lurking-on-the-fringes/
    Worth reading, very much so.

    Secondly I want to echo Morpheus' words: I realize there are motivations at work in you that count for a fat lot more than our voices, but as far as we are concerned: Take your time with the questions, we're not going anywhere. And just in case you missed it: They need not be all asked publicly (or in grandiose fashion, like in the debating camp). Drop a line in a PM, start a thread in the 'I need help' forums just as two pointers.
    I also realize that what you might dread more than asking your questions is getting our answers, and those answers being what you (did not?) expect.

    In any case: Kudos for being so up-front about it.

    (And lastly: One reason why we can seem very abrasive is because some of us have tried to make their voices heard for decades and are quite hoarse and exasperated with 'the world' in general)



    edit: I have dug up an article from the main site that describes how a transgender man (i.e. self-identifying as male) experienced his sex change and the reactions to it:
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/from-woman-to-man-to-red-pill/

    It may not be an easy read, but it might be very relevant to your situation.

  7. #7

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres
    Here's a link to Aimee's article: http://www.avoiceformen.com/women/to-the-women-lurking-on-the-fringes/
    Worth reading, very much so.

    Secondly I want to echo Morpheus' words: I realize there are motivations at work in you that count for a fat lot more than our voices, but as far as we are concerned: Take your time with the questions, we're not going anywhere. And just in case you missed it: They need not be all asked publicly (or in grandiose fashion, like in the debating camp). Drop a line in a PM, start a thread in the 'I need help' forums just as two pointers.
    I also realize that what you might dread more than asking your questions is getting our answers, and those answers being what you (did not?) expect.

    In any case: Kudos for being so up-front about it.

    (And lastly: One reason why we can seem very abrasive is because some of us have tried to make their voices heard for decades and are quite hoarse and exasperated with 'the world' in general)



    edit: I have dug up an article from the main site that describes how a transgender man (i.e. self-identifying as male) experienced his sex change and the reactions to it:
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/from-woman-to-man-to-red-pill/

    It may not be an easy read, but it might be very relevant to your situation.
    Thank you Andres.

    I am finding the accommodating here for my ultra feminist position to be as strange as any far country someone might find themselves in. I expected to be banned straight away and that would be that.

    Thank yous, rep ratings, warm comments without judgement, an invitation to a debate, validation of my words, forgiving me of my abrasive introduction and now links to assist me. I have even received a long and generous welcoming PM from someone here who asked me to ask for help. Others have asked me to ask for help also in public.

    The shame I feel right now has taken me by acute suprise.

  8. #8

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres
    Here's a link to Aimee's article: http://www.avoiceformen.com/women/to-the-women-lurking-on-the-fringes/
    Worth reading, very much so.

    Secondly I want to echo Morpheus' words: I realize there are motivations at work in you that count for a fat lot more than our voices, but as far as we are concerned: Take your time with the questions, we're not going anywhere. And just in case you missed it: They need not be all asked publicly (or in grandiose fashion, like in the debating camp). Drop a line in a PM, start a thread in the 'I need help' forums just as two pointers.
    I also realize that what you might dread more than asking your questions is getting our answers, and those answers being what you (did not?) expect.

    In any case: Kudos for being so up-front about it.

    (And lastly: One reason why we can seem very abrasive is because some of us have tried to make their voices heard for decades and are quite hoarse and exasperated with 'the world' in general)



    edit: I have dug up an article from the main site that describes how a transgender man (i.e. self-identifying as male) experienced his sex change and the reactions to it:
    http://www.avoiceformen.com/misandry/chivalry/from-woman-to-man-to-red-pill/

    It may not be an easy read, but it might be very relevant to your situation.


    This, +2 Andres
    You are the shiznit sir

  9. #9

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andres

    Take your time with the questions, we're not going anywhere. And just in case you missed it: They need not be all asked publicly (or in grandiose fashion, like in the debating camp). Drop a line in a PM, start a thread in the 'I need help' forums just as two pointers.
    I also realize that what you might dread more than asking your questions is getting our answers, and those answers being what you (did not?) expect.
    To Andres.

    I appreciate you telling me this. Unfortunately the "contract" as Andrew said in his last email to me has it where I am to copy and paste his exact words he has submitted as the 9 questions I am to ask. I have to do it in a new thread each time only and he was very clear about that.

    If it was up to me I admit I would ask in a PM, but he said he knew I would do that and made a point about how it would maximise the different responses by asking in public.

    You are right that I will dread the responses. Not only that, but I am to ask deeper to every person on each thread at least one time for the proceeding week. If I do not validate and with sincerity then the deal's off. He says he will take that as a sign of my not taking him seriously. He is obviously had much time to think of all angles it seems. The whole thing is distasteful with its walk of shame but I choose to walk it and so be it.

    I have to make sure I have all the boxes ticked as there are quite a few.

    He is reading this post right now (maybe), and if you are Andrew, I want you to know I am taking this "Tour of reverses", as you aptly put it, very seriously and I ask you again how am I to know you have read the upcoming threads anyway?

    Will you send a PM to a mod at least? Will you join the forum as you never mentioned any of this?

  10. #10

    RE: An open letter to Andrew.

    Tracy, I'm sure that Andrew is here for you in spirit if not in actual person.
    I've had a number of TG clients, I've also spoken to a number of people on a personal level who have transitioned. My understanding from these encounters is the process of gender reassignment is a solitary inwards journey. Your chosing to come seeking answers is also a solitary inwards journey, because I am guessing those questions are challenges to your social/political identity.
    Scary thing about these kinds of journeys - no road maps, no clue on the final destination.
    I'm just starting on one around professional identity at age 42, having received an unexpected calling to another career (I was not looking for or expecting this call), so I have some degree of empathy!
    On the practical; Be prepared to pace yourself and have a support system and safety plan in place. Make sure you are nourishing the physical person you are well. Get sleep, exercise, have cuddles with the cats regularly. Don't be afraid to ask for help

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