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Thread: How feminism became capitalism's handmaiden

  1. #41
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    Trump is only a temporary respite. There is no victory in this, the political battle waxes and wanes. One side takes a drubbing they go back and regroup.

    The whole women's march anti Trump things is only a fractional part a message towards Trump and the right wing. Who have probably been expecting it. It's intended audience is the side which as adopted them, been foolish enough to let them in. For them it's a massive signal that says "Don't you dare, dump us, we may be controlling, vindictive and bigoted, and that may have resulted in a load of wavering middle Americans flipping to Trump but don't you fucking dare dump us."

    They will demand a doubling down and intensification as their next strategy.

    I don't like the signs. It's not a good time for middle ground folk. Trump will try to retain and preserve some conservative ground as his voters want him to. That'll be enough for the maniacs to scream blue murder over. To them the other side doesn't have policies, it has genocidal hate plans.

    In terms of the presidency, you've only got one defence, the electoral college constituency basis. That gives smaller US states a voice to go after their own interests. Other than that the lunatic concentrations in the media controlled out of touch with reality cities of Los Angeles and New York, will drag them down into the pit of their delusions.

    This isn't going to be pleasant, it is massively pushing towards division or surrender, because this Feminist controlled liberal/socialist/capitalist/whatever cares not for compromise, cares not for balance, cares not for live and let live it only cares to get it's own way. It's a screaming ranting child, spewing that not getting it's new candy is tantamount to abuse and abandonment. It doesn't have to show harm, all the fault lies with those who have made it feel like it can't get what it wants.

    You can call all of the policy positions it's after in one simple statement :- Power to do what we want without limit.

    Yes, that is my take on it as well. We need to figure out some way to keep the momentum up, or else it's going to get taken away in the next interim cycle, and then it will be nothing but stonewalling after that. Just like it was with the dems and the repugs for so long. That's a terrible place to be. Gotta kick Feminism and it's leftist lapdogs to the curb to get out from under it and go back to being a more united, less divided country.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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  2. #42
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_e View Post
    Yes, that is my take on it as well. We need to figure out some way to keep the momentum up, or else it's going to get taken away in the next interim cycle, and then it will be nothing but stonewalling after that. Just like it was with the dems and the repugs for so long. That's a terrible place to be. Gotta kick Feminism and it's leftist lapdogs to the curb to get out from under it and go back to being a more united, less divided country.
    As a non American, there is a lot I can't understand. The rest of the world has a complicated relationship with the US, for a long time it defined the modern democracy, and the capitalist system. Post WW2 it was the world's darling, now not so much. The rest of the English speaking world has an even more complicated relationship with the US. Sometimes on cultural issues we can't even tell each other apart. A British comic book reader, D&D fan, etc fan nearly always has a mass of US friends and contacts. But on politics that blurring is catastrophic, own political commentators either through stupidity or design keep trying to draw parallels where they don't exist. They are desperate to call the POTUS the leader of the free world, to make the story more relevant to someone in Birmingham who seriously doesn't care. Knowing who the POTUS is like one easy to get point in a pub quiz.

    US headlines politics stories are often such big headline news that the top out British politics. But it's a cynical subset that is picked up on. Firstly the media loves salacious hate baiting news, factual stuff about a two sided debate isn't sexy enough. Secondly UK media is deeply partisan and the left consider Trump the spawn of Satan and the right consider Trump to be an upstart that exists to pay for their politics not do it. I can say as a witness, no criticism of Obama made it onto the British news and neither has any praise for Trump.

    The debate on this forum about politics is far more nuanced about the US than any of my other reading or news sources. I have a lot of time for SST and Manalysis. To be frank, if they were in the UK, I would be pretty close to them politically and without doubt co operating on many issues. I do act to defend NHS and public services, things which I think they'd do if they were here. I'm also deeply committed to understanding context. Hence there are many issues I find myself often more convinced that in the US context, the right wing ideas are more realistic.

    The deep embedding of feminist and SJW type strategy is paying off for them. The US made it's long march toward corporate capitalism, oiligarchs and military industrial complex, a post cold war set of espionage institutions, things that a remote observer can only look at and go, glad they are not over here. The power of capitalist right in the US drove much of the fundamental left into a losing position for a long time. They retreated to the Uni's, think tanks, then faded and left their positions to be inherited by new wave that takes the hard left to the far left, in a mutated form.

    There is no way this brand of feminism can be called a woman's rights movement, it is not at all. It's about political power, it's tactics are domination through manipulation and control and complete avoidance of accountability. They are only interested in positions where they can't be held to account for doing a lousy job, and they will enter positions only where the only criteria to achieve is increase spending on feminism. They utterly refuse to take responsibility for male suffering that happens on their watch, a female dean, judge or senator isn't going to get a hard time over institutional and systemic bias against males, though she might get a hard time for showing any form of balance towards justice which will be immediately lashed out against as leniency and male privilege.

    This drives division. Absolute positions of this is right and that is wrong, boiled down to cartoon like simplicity judged and labelled by guilt of association leaves no space for anything. Here Mike Buchanan is rarely mentioned in the political discussions, if he is it will be immediately spat down, even faster that Nigel Farage. There will be no space to even investigate what he stands for. It's not done by a raving looney, it's done by someone who is an ally over many issues. It's complete, absolute and leaves no space. Paul Elam by people who are wholly and massively ignorant is condemned as the leader of a neo-fascist movement. People virtue signal by declaring their hatred and opposition to something they know nothing at all about. Seeing what I've seen, knowing what I know, it's plain depressing, I work with these people, they are my friends, they are good people, they are decent kind and caring. They are also deluded.

    I think stark messages are needed. Take that Professor Sullivan, before she accused men's rights of being incompetent rapists, she said male suicide, male victims of domestic violence and male under attainment in the education system were real issues. Real big of her... done only for self serving reasons. But there lies the key.

    Feminism had objectives that it needed to feed issues, because issues are important. We have objectives because we have issues. That's two things ticked in a strong way. The issues are real. The objectives are to have those issues dealt with. The issues have been accepted, let a feminist educate you on what that means, it means someone has lost a key to a door they like to keep locked. You take that key and you keep opening that door. They'll slam it in your face, you take that key and you open it again. If all you can do is shout the issues before they slam that door, you do so. Because they don't need a door to keep issues away from unreasonable people. They need a door to keep issues away from reasonable ones.

    An acknowledged issue is driver because lack of action on that issue becomes a new issue, reasons for lack of action become a new issue, continuous unexplained lack of action becomes a scandal of prejudice against those not acting. Feminist use that strategy. Makes me feel a bit sick respecting their execution of these Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals but they have mastered them, and execute them ruthlessly. Their ruthlessness though stems from a lack of substance. There is no gender pay gap, there is a statistical gender average earnings difference - they friggin know that, they don't care, it's a key for them, even if completely dishonest.

    Men's rights issues are real, you can't look at them without risking the evidence bubbling and surging through. Men being put off talking about that is the weapon to stop them emerging. As soon as feminists decided to up the game on IPV to psychological abuse, they unwittingly started describing what abusive women do to a mass of abused male partners. I read a fair amount of feminist stuff, used to read more but really can't take that much any more. A thing I noticed, they quit describing what men do to women a long time ago. They describe what women do to women as societal sexist abuse, and they now just plain look at things they do to abuse others and accuse men of doing that without even the slightest grounding or evidence. For them women knows this kind of bullying happens because they do it to or see it done to males and females, the scapegoating by putting on males is cathartic for them, and politically expedient. It's asinine, foolish and contemptuous, but false accusation is a real issue for men.

    And some women are really paying attention, because personally and politically they don't align with these feminists. The feminist bribes of easier paths to success, perks and let's all blame men, don't buy their loyalty. They are looking at feminists and thinking, I don't like the policies they offer, I don't like the fart cloud ambiguity on every issue, I don't like how they treat and regard men. And I seriously don't like the fact that as soon as they see past my woman parts to someone who doesn't agree with them, how they treat men will be how they treat me. Women, more and more are announcing their anti-feminism, not so much from a I want to support men perspective, but I want to protect myself and my own political ideas and free thinking.

    So going forward I'd think is about:

    • Knowing the issues
    • Knowing what is not being done about the issues
    • Know who is not doing it
    • Know your allies
    • Know why they are your allies
    • Letting those who aren't your allies yet know what's happened, is happening and is going to happen if they do nothing.


    And this has got way too long, my bad, sorry.
    Last edited by voidspawn; 03-20-2017 at 05:09 PM.
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  3. #43
    Senior Member Deidre's Avatar
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    Feminists believe they speak for all women but even if I don't identify as a feminist, I can be part of the "protected class" simply because I'm a woman. The key is to not take advantage of such a position as a woman.

  4. #44
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    As a non American, there is a lot I can't understand. The rest of the world has a complicated relationship with the US, for a long time it defined the modern democracy, and the capitalist system. Post WW2 it was the world's darling, now not so much. The rest of the English speaking world has an even more complicated relationship with the US. Sometimes on cultural issues we can't even tell each other apart. A British comic book reader, D&D fan, etc fan nearly always has a mass of US friends and contacts. But on politics that blurring is catastrophic, own political commentators either through stupidity or design keep trying to draw parallels where they don't exist. They are desperate to call the POTUS the leader of the free world, to make the story more relevant to someone in Birmingham who seriously doesn't care. Knowing who the POTUS is like one easy to get point in a pub quiz.

    US headlines politics stories are often such big headline news that the top out British politics. But it's a cynical subset that is picked up on. Firstly the media loves salacious hate baiting news, factual stuff about a two sided debate isn't sexy enough. Secondly UK media is deeply partisan and the left consider Trump the spawn of Satan and the right consider Trump to be an upstart that exists to pay for their politics not do it. I can say as a witness, no criticism of Obama made it onto the British news and neither has any praise for Trump.

    The debate on this forum about politics is far more nuanced about the US than any of my other reading or news sources. I have a lot of time for SST and Manalysis. To be frank, if they were in the UK, I would be pretty close to them politically and without doubt co operating on many issues. I do act to defend NHS and public services, things which I think they'd do if they were here. I'm also deeply committed to understanding context. Hence there are many issues I find myself often more convinced that in the US context, the right wing ideas are more realistic.

    The deep embedding of feminist and SJW type strategy is paying off for them. The US made it's long march toward corporate capitalism, oiligarchs and military industrial complex, a post cold war set of espionage institutions, things that a remote observer can only look at and go, glad they are not over here. The power of capitalist right in the US drove much of the fundamental left into a losing position for a long time. They retreated to the Uni's, think tanks, then faded and left their positions to be inherited by new wave that takes the hard left to the far left, in a mutated form.

    There is no way this brand of feminism can be called a woman's rights movement, it is not at all. It's about political power, it's tactics are domination through manipulation and control and complete avoidance of accountability. They are only interested in positions where they can't be held to account for doing a lousy job, and they will enter positions only where the only criteria to achieve is increase spending on feminism. They utterly refuse to take responsibility for male suffering that happens on their watch, a female dean, judge or senator isn't going to get a hard time over institutional and systemic bias against males, though she might get a hard time for showing any form of balance towards justice which will be immediately lashed out against as leniency and male privilege.

    This drives division. Absolute positions of this is right and that is wrong, boiled down to cartoon like simplicity judged and labelled by guilt of association leaves no space for anything. Here Mike Buchanan is rarely mentioned in the political discussions, if he is it will be immediately spat down, even faster that Nigel Farage. There will be no space to even investigate what he stands for. It's not done by a raving looney, it's done by someone who is an ally over many issues. It's complete, absolute and leaves no space. Paul Elam by people who are wholly and massively ignorant is condemned as the leader of a neo-fascist movement. People virtue signal by declaring their hatred and opposition to something they know nothing at all about. Seeing what I've seen, knowing what I know, it's plain depressing, I work with these people, they are my friends, they are good people, they are decent kind and caring. They are also deluded.

    I think stark messages are needed. Take that Professor Sullivan, before she accused men's rights of being incompetent rapists, she said male suicide, male victims of domestic violence and male under attainment in the education system were real issues. Real big of her... done only for self serving reasons. But there lies the key.

    Feminism had objectives that it needed to feed issues, because issues are important. We have objectives because we have issues. That's two things ticked in a strong way. The issues are real. The objectives are to have those issues dealt with. The issues have been accepted, let a feminist educate you on what that means, it means someone has lost a key to a door they like to keep locked. You take that key and you keep opening that door. They'll slam it in your face, you take that key and you open it again. If all you can do is shout the issues before they slam that door, you do so. Because they don't need a door to keep issues away from unreasonable people. They need a door to keep issues away from reasonable ones.

    An acknowledged issue is driver because lack of action on that issue becomes a new issue, reasons for lack of action become a new issue, continuous unexplained lack of action becomes a scandal of prejudice against those not acting. Feminist use that strategy. Makes me feel a bit sick respecting their execution of these Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicals but they have mastered them, and execute them ruthlessly. Their ruthlessness though stems from a lack of substance. There is no gender pay gap, there is a statistical gender average earnings difference - they friggin know that, they don't care, it's a key for them, even if completely dishonest.

    Men's rights issues are real, you can't look at them without risking the evidence bubbling and surging through. Men being put off talking about that is the weapon to stop them emerging. As soon as feminists decided to up the game on IPV to psychological abuse, they unwittingly started describing what abusive women do to a mass of abused male partners. I read a fair amount of feminist stuff, used to read more but really can't take that much any more. A thing I noticed, they quit describing what men do to women a long time ago. They describe what women do to women as societal sexist abuse, and they now just plain look at things they do to abuse others and accuse men of doing that without even the slightest grounding or evidence. For them women knows this kind of bullying happens because they do it to or see it done to males and females, the scapegoating by putting on males is cathartic for them, and politically expedient. It's asinine, foolish and contemptuous, but false accusation is a real issue for men.

    And some women are really paying attention, because personally and politically they don't align with these feminists. The feminist bribes of easier paths to success, perks and let's all blame men, don't buy their loyalty. They are looking at feminists and thinking, I don't like the policies they offer, I don't like the fart cloud ambiguity on every issue, I don't like how they treat and regard men. And I seriously don't like the fact that as soon as they see past my woman parts to someone who doesn't agree with them, how they treat men will be how they treat me. Women, more and more are announcing their anti-feminism, not so much from a I want to support men perspective, but I want to protect myself and my own political ideas and free thinking.

    So going forward I'd think is about:

    • Knowing the issues
    • Knowing what is not being done about the issues
    • Know who is not doing it
    • Know your allies
    • Know why they are your allies
    • Letting those who aren't your allies yet know what's happened, is happening and is going to happen if they do nothing.


    And this has got way too long, my bad, sorry.
    I don't know about things over there, but over here things are heating up to the point that I think armed conflict could potential be a reality. I already know people who are laying in weapons and supplies toward that eventuality. Not to be a participant, but to simply be able to ride it out and have provisions in the event that something should arise.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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  5. #45
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mr_e View Post
    BTW, M. I just realized I slightly misread your post.
    And I didn't have the facts of the matter. Just forget the whole thing

    M

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    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    Feminists believe they speak for all women but even if I don't identify as a feminist, I can be part of the "protected class" simply because I'm a woman. The key is to not take advantage of such a position as a woman.

    Yes and no.

    Yes, because... thanks!

    No, for the same reason MGTOW is ultimately a misguided effort (not that the people practicing it are misguided, only in that it has no future-- unless society keeps creating new MGTOW's).
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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  7. #47
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    And I didn't have the facts of the matter. Just forget the whole thing

    M

    What were we talking about again?
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    Feminists believe they speak for all women but even if I don't identify as a feminist, I can be part of the "protected class" simply because I'm a woman. The key is to not take advantage of such a position as a woman.
    You know what is funny? My daughter's mother, the one who really hosed me, was anti-feminist 15 years ago. Then she used the system, which she fully admitted was biased in her favor, against me.

    I guess the moral is, "You don't have to be a feminist to be a bad person," which isn't nearly as interesting as I thought when I started this post

  9. #49
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    As a non American, there is a lot I can't understand. The rest of the world has a complicated relationship with the US, for a long time

    [...]

    There is no way this brand of feminism can be called a woman's rights movement, it is not at all. It's about political power,

    [...]
    Lots of good points in there, just too many to list. You're right, it IS all just about political power. That is why the anti-male rhetoric has been amping up higher and higher. And the irony-- the SUPREME IRONY-- is that Feminism exists on the backs of MEN. It is MEN who permit it to exist. Without MALE BUY-IN, Feminism wouldn't be-- COULDN'T BE a tiny candle compared to what it is today. Even now, if Men collectively rejected it, it would fall flat on its face overnight. The danger of Feminism, ironically, isn't from the WOMEN, but rather it's from the MEN they have aligned themselves with. By themselves they would simply be a nuisance.

    But Feminists are using the system that they call "Patriarchy" (that the rest of us call equality / equitable living / productive society) to hoist themselves into power, so they can change it and pervert it into something it never was. And they are busy breaking it. I don't even know if it's possible to put all the pieces back together again.

    And it isn't that women need to be held down and enslaved-- it isn't that women can't lead or govern-- it's that FEMINISM is a fucking hate group. It would be like handing the reigns of the country over to a bunch of Ku Klux Klansman-- who I'm sure would just bust a nut at the chance-- and saying "Here ya go fellers... we've had a pretty good run, see what you can do with it." I shudder to think what that society would look like. And I have the exact same feelings and concerns about what things would be like with Feminism at the helm.

    Every single one of us here has had our dealings with Feminism / Feminists in one way or another. They are not unknown to us. We all know first hand how we get treated in the society that they *DON'T* control. Just imagine what it would be like to live in a world they *DID* control. I suppose there are many here-- you Voidspawn, among them-- who know much better than I do what living in an overly Feminized society is like-- and your societies are only just barely ramping up to being Feminist. Just wait until they really have a go at it.

    And in *EVERY SINGLE INSTANCE* that I can think of-- when they get into office / power, they obfuscate / ignore / deflect any issues related to men. They're not about "Equality"-- that's the FARTHEST FUCKING THING FROM THEIR MINDS. It is not now, and never was, and never will be about "equality". It is only about WOMEN. And that's it. And not even ALL women at that. Just the ones who agree to tacitly go along with their bullshit schemes and not call them out on their hatred and sexist bigotry.

    We can't even make ONE GODDAMNED FILM about OUR ISSUES without having HATEFUL FEMINISTS ALL OVER THE FUCKING WORLD shit all over it, LIE ABOUT IT, act to Censor it, Petition to Shut Down the Movie Theaters, Gather outside to disrupt the venue.

    THAT IS HOW SCARED THEY ARE OF THE TRUTH.

    And it IS the truth. We know it. And THEY know it.

    And worst of all-- THEY DON'T CARE.

    So why do WE CARE? We keep supporting them. We keep looking the other way and letting them do it to us. We are sitting in the frying pan WATCHING THEM TURNING UP THE HEAT and sitting around jawboning about it...

    "Oh look... there she goes... turning up the knob just a little bit more...."

    "Yup, it is getting a mite warm in here... do you think the heat will let up soon?"

    "Yup yup... I reckon soon"..


    That would be US, including you and me.

    Men are so fucking stupid sometimes-- including me. Why can't we ever come together and push collectively for our own issues.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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  10. #50
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StrongSilentType View Post
    You know what is funny? My daughter's mother, the one who really hosed me, was anti-feminist 15 years ago. Then she used the system, which she fully admitted was biased in her favor, against me.

    I guess the moral is, "You don't have to be a feminist to be a bad person," which isn't nearly as interesting as I thought when I started this post

    It's okay. We like you anyway. Sorry you got shit on. I wish there was something I could do to make it better.

    I wish Men would stop going it alone and get together to collectivize and work on addressing our issues.

    Until then, we're all going to keep getting screwed over and hosed by Feminists and it's policies and effects-- over and over.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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