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Thread: Herpes, Any Good Reason To "Disclose"?

  1. #11
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik1 View Post
    You think so? Let me provide an alternative train of thought. Perhaps I just pride myself on my honesty, perhaps I don't really care heads or tails about any individuals, I certainly don't remember caring emotionally for others for quite some time. Pride is an important aspect of a narcissist or sociopath after all. They say narcissists and sociopaths are incapable of such self analysis, but it can be fun to keep people guessing wouldn't you say
    Can't say I give it much thought. I take my responsibility as member of society, species, etc seriously. On occasion it is fun to know what others think of me, but it's not that important unless something is contingent on it.

    Sure a person could be just indulging some form of self absorption. Doesn't really matter, whatever process they are going through to get from A to B, they are responsible for. You've asked a question, perhaps you'd like people to say 'do what you want it's all okay', but let's assume you are open to the answers that state responsibility for your own actions is a real thing, your impact on others is a real thing, their right to decide: participate or avoid is a real thing.

    I think it's interesting pondering what a narcissist or sociopath would do with this question, but it doesn't take much pondering. From experience it tends to go one way, in a pretty tramlined fashion. Internet is internet. It's not very satisfying for a narcissist to realise that even when people engage, they can turn off when they want, even when they stubbornly answer and reply and seem to be on a hook, it's for their own reasons. And that the reality tends towards, all the fun of imagining these people are thinking about them, is just imagination. Most regulars on public forums are using a public voice, even when answering specifically to a person, they are writing with a view that many others are reading and it enters an archive for public perusal, and there is a strong element of responsibility to a group that does erode any narcissistic position as they come to realise that even as an individual they will be cared about in the context of what is good for the group.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    Ah my bad lol ...well, for your own peace of mind, maybe see if you have it, get a proper diagnosis and if you don't, then you have nothing to be concerned over but if you do, I would share it before having sex.
    Difficult to get a proper diagnosis without visible herpes sores. Itchy balls is a little difficult to narrow down aside from "possibly herpes", or "possibly irritation after a hair trim". It's a rather wide inconclusive net. I do appreciate your opinion that it is nothing to be concerned over without an official diagnosis however. One of the key reasons for starting this thread was to gather the mass opinion on whether I am concerning myself with something I need not be.

    In any case, my willingness to "take responsibility", might just be closely linked with the general population's willingness to "take responsibility" for their ignorance surrounding certain stds, and the hypocritical tendency to shame individuals with visible herpes outbreaks all the while spreading the std incognito themselves. Perhaps that's a tad spiteful, but I guess only time will tell what my final decision will be.

    Good of you to take the time to chat
    Last edited by mik1; 03-18-2017 at 05:44 PM.

  3. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    Can't say I give it much thought. I take my responsibility as member of society, species, etc seriously. On occasion it is fun to know what others think of me, but it's not that important unless something is contingent on it.

    Sure a person could be just indulging some form of self absorption. Doesn't really matter, whatever process they are going through to get from A to B, they are responsible for. You've asked a question, perhaps you'd like people to say 'do what you want it's all okay', but let's assume you are open to the answers that state responsibility for your own actions is a real thing, your impact on others is a real thing, their right to decide: participate or avoid is a real thing.

    I think it's interesting pondering what a narcissist or sociopath would do with this question, but it doesn't take much pondering. From experience it tends to go one way, in a pretty tramlined fashion. Internet is internet. It's not very satisfying for a narcissist to realise that even when people engage, they can turn off when they want, even when they stubbornly answer and reply and seem to be on a hook, it's for their own reasons. And that the reality tends towards, all the fun of imagining these people are thinking about them, is just imagination. Most regulars on public forums are using a public voice, even when answering specifically to a person, they are writing with a view that many others are reading and it enters an archive for public perusal, and there is a strong element of responsibility to a group that does erode any narcissistic position as they come to realise that even as an individual they will be cared about in the context of what is good for the group.
    Aye, but we hide things from others intentionally and unintentionally all the time, acting based on what we believe will or will not have an effect on others, positive or negative. There is such a thing as responsibility, but where the line is drawn is based on an individuals given set of ethics/moral values.

    I honestly can't say I have much of a vested interest in the good of an internet forum, I enjoy posting here and engaging in debate, so I do. Perhaps I am a narc, but you will never meet a more direct/honest narc

  4. #14
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik1 View Post
    Aye, but we hide things from others intentionally and unintentionally all the time, acting based on what we believe will or will not have an effect on others, positive or negative. There is such a thing as responsibility, but where the line is drawn is based on an individuals given set of ethics/moral values.

    I honestly can't say I have much of a vested interest in the good of an internet forum, I enjoy posting here and engaging in debate, so I do. Perhaps I am a narc, but you will never meet a more direct/honest narc
    We can draw lines about what we hide or reveal. There is a pile of information that isn't other people's business. Circumstances may make it there business such as having sex with someone with STDs, that shifts it. But sitting next to someone on the subway doesn't place a responsibility to disclose, regardless of how cool or panicked the person might be.

    I like this forum because it's attached to men's rights, which I care about. There are many people who care about the same thing. I think a place like this is very useful and helpful. Part of the use is the diversity of being a public forum, posters don't have to have any particular POV. It joins the chat, rumbles around, gets commented and cogitated, something pops out.

    What you may or may not be is your question, to which I hope you have or find an answer that is helpful for you. The posts you've added are interesting, the debate is helpful. You certainly don't need to be a 'believer' or a cause member or anything like that. I don't think there is anything like that here really, other than undercurrent themes of support for men's rights and anti-feminism.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    We can draw lines about what we hide or reveal. There is a pile of information that isn't other people's business. Circumstances may make it there business such as having sex with someone with STDs, that shifts it. But sitting next to someone on the subway doesn't place a responsibility to disclose, regardless of how cool or panicked the person might be.

    I like this forum because it's attached to men's rights, which I care about. There are many people who care about the same thing. I think a place like this is very useful and helpful. Part of the use is the diversity of being a public forum, posters don't have to have any particular POV. It joins the chat, rumbles around, gets commented and cogitated, something pops out.

    What you may or may not be is your question, to which I hope you have or find an answer that is helpful for you. The posts you've added are interesting, the debate is helpful. You certainly don't need to be a 'believer' or a cause member or anything like that. I don't think there is anything like that here really, other than undercurrent themes of support for men's rights and anti-feminism.
    Feminism has been going on for a long time, and privileges are added for women everyday. Men's rights groups on the other hand have accomplished very little, through no fault of their own. You see, as long as ~90% of men pander to women, and 90% of women pander to women, we are going to be stuck. Sure we can gradually lower the number of white knights, but it will take a long while to reach 90% of men standing up for their rights.

    I view this forum as a fun place to identify the poisoned well for what it is, and to vent frustrations, but I have no illusions that we are moving at anything more than a snails pace toward men's rights. Unless you discover the cure for aging you are unlikely to see a paradigm shift in your lifetime. Well I suppose violent societal collapse brought on by certain third world nations is a possibility, but it doesn't sound particularly pleasant, and will likely only balance gender rights via the removal of rights in general.

  6. #16
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik1 View Post
    Feminism has been going on for a long time, and privileges are added for women everyday. Men's rights groups on the other hand have accomplished very little, through no fault of their own. You see, as long as ~90% of men pander to women, and 90% of women pander to women, we are going to be stuck. Sure we can gradually lower the number of white knights, but it will take a long while to reach 90% of men standing up for their rights.

    I view this forum as a fun place to identify the poisoned well for what it is, and to vent frustrations, but I have no illusions that we are moving at anything more than a snails pace toward men's rights. Unless you discover the cure for aging you are unlikely to see a paradigm shift in your lifetime. Well I suppose violent societal collapse brought on by certain third world nations is a possibility, but it doesn't sound particularly pleasant, and will likely only balance gender rights via the removal of rights in general.
    Yup, I think there is merit in this observation.

    First issues of men's rights I got involved in, many years ago, got completely shut down. Just silently cut out. I managed to get one tiny response from a councillor who said the 'feminists would never allow it'. I was young at the time, the answer didn't make much sense. It was a request I'd supported for a men's ex offenders group to be allowed to form a support group because many of them had suffered sexual and violent abuse as children.

    Then I got involved with youth problems, and listened to boys who were desperate for the presence of strong male role models to offer them some direction and safety to be themselves, in their violent ghettoised lives. Even when one knifed another to death, the system responded with not just silence but the place I worked ordered that no one was allowed to talk to the media.

    A few suicides and deaths later I came here, after a long trawl through feminist dominated sources (many of which I didn't know that when reading them) to try to get some handle or understanding on what was going on.

    Here an answer was plainly said 'there is an empathy gap' it wasn't an answer to the problem but it wasn't a lie, it wasn't silence, it wasn't rejection that the problem exists. That was useful for me.

    I watched the videos, much like everyone found Karen Straughan a breath of fresh air, watched the first ICMI from the write ups and video releases, followed the news. There were some emergences, I got a bit of hope. Then saw a backlash, all over the circles I moved in people would say yeah such and such is wrong, like circumcision or male suicide but there second statement was 'but those MRA's are fucking evil bastards, I don't hold with them at all'. It was all just surreal and wtf. Good people that I knew had such a wrong impression and a massively closed mind. Well now we got the The Red Pill movie, a lot more volumes of work and better developed arguments. MRM supporters are often far better informed on even feminist issues than your average feminist, and far better informed than 99% of the general public.

    Tortoise and hare, snail's pace don't matter, does it really?
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  7. #17
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik1 View Post
    Alright, this should be an interesting topic. So a little history about me, I was a virgin until ~24, and then I decided to deal with that problem by spending some time with a pro. Of course it didn't stop there, and I'd estimate I've seen ~15 different women over the course of a year.
    I took all the usual precautions of course, but what they don't tell you in this fun time hookup culture is that not all std's can be avoided by wearing a condom. Hpv and Herpes seem to be the main culprits for stds that a massive percentage of sexually active adults are infected with, often without any visible symptoms.

    Hpv can cause various types of cancer, although it is rare that this occurs. Usually hpv is flushed from the body with no long term symptoms. Herpes is much less dangerous, although in rare cases it can spread to the brain and is somewhat dangerous to infants during child birth.
    From what I have read, many people go their entire lives without having a visible Herpes outbreak, even though they are still capable of transmitting the virus via inconspicuous shedding. Others may occasionally have an outbreak, but it might not progress to visible sores, only going so far as a mild irritation/itch.
    Then of course there are the poor unlucky saps who have full blown visible outbreaks, sores, and scabbing. These are the poor saps that actually have to own up to the fact that they most definitely have herpes, and face the social stigma attached.

    Since condoms are only ~50% effective at preventing Herpes, and it can be spread even when an outbreak isn't occurring, I didn't really believe I'd be able to avoid it forever. As far as I can tell I seem to be a moderate case, a bit of itchiness during an outbreak and no other visible signs. Since they don't have a blood test available for Herps in my part of the world (they only test if sores are visible), I'm pretty much stuck knowing I probably have it but don't "officially" have it.
    I'm not really sure what all the fuss is about, there seems to be a lot of ignorance and a lot of social distancing occurring for something that is essentially little more a nuisance than the common cold. Something that many people probably already have but don't have symptoms, so they can maintain their precious "clean" status.

    I remember a rather intriguing conversation I had with a whore wherein I asked her what she does to protect herself. She was genuinely surprised at the notion that Herpes is often asymptomatic and easily transferable even with condoms, and she was one of the brighter ones.
    So I'm in a bit of a conundrum, as much as I'd like to crush this compulsive honesty bug and just do whatever the hell I like, I know it probably wouldn't do good things for my mental health long term.
    So I leave the discussion to you, the community at large. What would you do if you we're ~75% certain you had herpes but didn't have an official status? Ignore it, disclose everything on the first date, or perhaps only disclose if the topic of stds comes up?

    I feel as though I'm leaning towards a "fuck it" attitude. Perhaps if the medical community took education and prevention of Herps a little more seriously, and there was less societal alarmist thinking surrounding the topic, I might be a little more inclined to think people deserve honesty. I do wonder what's worse, someone born dishonest, or someone compulsively honest who would do anything to get the honesty monkey off their back...
    I seem to have a lot less sympathy for pros than I do for the average girl "innocently" looking to rope a guy into an ltr. Perhaps it's because pros should really already know what they are getting into, or maybe I'm just jaded because I probably got this itch from a pro.

    You should probably tattoo it to your forehead in big, bold letters...

    ;-)

    Seriously though, I agree with the other folks here. No need to say anything unless things are headed for the bedroom, and then I would say that your partner has the full right to know.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik1 View Post
    What would you do if you we're ~75% certain you had herpes but didn't have an official status?
    Item #1: Go to a doctor and take a test to get a diagnosis

    Ignore it, disclose everything on the first date, or perhaps only disclose if the topic of stds comes up?
    One method of producing alternatives for an answer is to apply the Golden Rule: Reverse the situation.
    Would you want someone who think they may have herpes to tell you this before they took you to bed?
    What conclusions does one draw from a "yes" or a "no" here?

    A variant of a Kantian approach is to ask: "How sure are you of not getting caught?"
    What conclusions does one draw from an "impossible" or a "guaranteed" here?

    Going to bed with someone you know has herpes is a choice. If you don't have the information, there is no choice.
    IOW, withholding information is to withhold not only information, but the freedom of choice.
    One might justly refuse to share information with people when that info is none of their business, but volunteering to share an STD wiht others doesn't fall into the same category, does it?

    Perhaps if .... there was less societal alarmist thinking surrounding the topic, I might be a little more inclined to think people deserve honesty.
    Is punishing them one by one by inflicting herpes on them a) the proper sanction and b) pronounced by the proper judge?

    M

  9. #19
    Just realized I was providing the prevalence of Herpes among sex workers, corrected that. Type 1 Herpes is much more common at around 65% of the adult population (estimate vary wildly due to the undiagnosed asymptomatic carriers). Type 2 is less common, at around 20%.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mik1 View Post
    I have no illusions that we are moving at anything more than a snails pace toward men's rights. Unless you discover the cure for aging you are unlikely to see a paradigm shift in your lifetime.
    'It's hard to make prophecies, especially about the future', as the saying goes.
    Looking back at some of the shifts that have occurred over the last four or five decades alone, many even without much of a "campaign" to push them, most of them would have looked rather improbable at the outset.
    A bit like a statistical analysis of the conjecture that adding 1 to another number will at any time produce the number '1 million'. At one point the odds will be 999 999:0 against this conjecture being true.
    I won't make prophecies, either, but I hope that the snail slog is more like the strong man pulling the semi-trailer: the first minute of moving the load from a standstill to start rolling is the hardest.
    You strain and strain and it's like nothing happens. Then, suddenly, imperceptibly, there s motion, the wheels begin to turn, ever so slowly.
    After that, it just gets easier.
    "Big Red" made for just a short clip on youtube, but helped substantially in elevating MRA issues from "the dark underbelly of the Internet" into the mainstream conversation.

    Well I suppose violent societal collapse brought on by certain third world nations is a possibility, but it doesn't sound particularly pleasant, and will likely only balance gender rights via the removal of rights in general.
    Yes. Another scenario is a general decline in Western affluence as Asia rises to its full material might.
    Life getting poorer and harder is a sure-fire way to make traditional gender roles reemerge.

    M

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