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    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Changing the education paradigm


    Ken Robinson a British educationalist, talks extensively about changing education. I think any interested in MHRM will immediately recognise the issues he highlights, especially as he uses examples of education is the US and the use of drug therapies for ADHD.

    A few thoughts jumped into my mind as I watched this:

    • This guy probably doesn't know the MRM exists, but he's addressing a core MRM issue.
    • He never says it, but it's painfully obvious he's talking about making an education system that would be healthier, happier and more effective for boys.
    • We should talk about this, to each other and with others, MRM writers should explore this, MRM members should tell the their stories about themselves and their children, people care about education and people hate waste of young peoples potential.
    • This is a good gateway issue to exploring the impact of modern statist / feminist society on boys and young men.
    • Boys deserve an education that develops their innate potential, talent and goodness and not one that drugs them and indoctrinates into accepting low expectations, shame and pathologising their desire for activity, curiosity and masculinity.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

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    Senior Member Deidre's Avatar
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    That's really interesting but what would need to take place first, is redefining feminism to mean what it actually is. It's not a humanitarian philosophy designed to bring both genders together in equitable harmony. But that is how it is "taught," and so it is hard to dismantle that bogus definition and replace it with reality. My point being that academia is largely governed by a feminist agenda and that would need to change first because feminists don't see boys as being outcasted or marginalized. And if they don't see how broken the system is, they might stand in the way of progress. Sadly a lot of feminists believe that feminism is for the greater good of humankind, they don't see it as willfully destroying boys and men. Or some may sadly think that is still for the greater good, sacrificing boys and men to favor women.

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    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post

    Ken Robinson a British educationalist, talks extensively about changing education. I think any interested in MHRM will immediately recognise the issues he highlights, especially as he uses examples of education is the US and the use of drug therapies for ADHD.

    A few thoughts jumped into my mind as I watched this:

    • This guy probably doesn't know the MRM exists, but he's addressing a core MRM issue.
    • He never says it, but it's painfully obvious he's talking about making an education system that would be healthier, happier and more effective for boys.
    • We should talk about this, to each other and with others, MRM writers should explore this, MRM members should tell the their stories about themselves and their children, people care about education and people hate waste of young peoples potential.
    • This is a good gateway issue to exploring the impact of modern statist / feminist society on boys and young men.
    • Boys deserve an education that develops their innate potential, talent and goodness and not one that drugs them and indoctrinates into accepting low expectations, shame and pathologising their desire for activity, curiosity and masculinity.
    Incredibly important - very interesting. Add to this the fact that in France, there is no ADHD, it's not recognized as a diagnosis. Lucky kids.
    The West has also a store of experiences with alternative pedagogics, in Montessori schools and similar approaches.

    It's also a huge project ... I suspect that technology is going to play a role we are not yet able to grasp. Video-game-like environments will play a large part of this, because they can make learning effortless.
    One challenge is to round off this with the old 'music' disciplines, i.e. the subjects where you produce instead of consume output: drawing, craft, theatre, oratory and, yes, music.
    It must also be rounded off with a physical regimen of some sorts, a "sports +". I'd have all kids doing kids' judo for three or four years, just to learn rough-n-tumble.

    But the stuff Robinson is advocating is not something you just propose at a PTA meeting. That is a very large edifice to clear out, there.

    M

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    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    That's really interesting but what would need to take place first, is redefining feminism to mean what it actually is. It's not a humanitarian philosophy designed to bring both genders together in equitable harmony.
    I think children, parents and society can't afford to wait until that debate is won. The issue of boys achievement and meaningful, productive and happy experience for boys or more precisely a lack of one is an issue that can be raised without even mentioning feminism. There is value in doing that, parents are going to care about their children. There is strong evidence that they are being fooled and lied to about the education they take children to and pay for. This guy is lecturing in the UK using the US as an example of what not to do to our children. He even uses a map of how much Americans dope up their kids, and we know that that is mostly boys. Professional educators in other countries find it a morbid joke. The animated style is just an RSA presentation of lectures he's been giving for a while.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    But that is how it is "taught," and so it is hard to dismantle that bogus definition and replace it with reality. My point being that academia is largely governed by a feminist agenda and that would need to change first because feminists don't see boys as being outcasted or marginalized.
    Children aren't just suffering because of the direct baloney classes on appropriate behaviour. There is a deeply embedded ideological bias that is usurping good educational sense. Sometimes it takes something that should be wholly innocuous to bring the point home about how deeply invasive it is. I probably mentioned I used to work in education and I've mentored teachers using Bloom's Taxonomy. Whilst going through this with someone we looked at the revised model, coming across this example here: http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/cour...axonomy/#table, that page looks pretty dull and innocuous but the table is meant to define a hierarchy of learning accomplishment. The table is clickable and gives an example in a pop up. "Actualize" in this table is given as the highest form of learning activity and when you click the example it gives this: http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/cour.../actualize.htm.

    It is pretty undeniable and horrendous how deeply inveigled feminist ideologues are in the education system. However children are suffering, people are letting this happen to their kids, and even a thousand miles away from US shores, you guys are being held up as an example of how not to treat children. This is in countries that insist on taking thousands of migrants with no plan or checking.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    And if they don't see how broken the system is, they might stand in the way of progress. Sadly a lot of feminists believe that feminism is for the greater good of humankind, they don't see it as willfully destroying boys and men. Or some may sadly think that is still for the greater good, sacrificing boys and men to favor women.
    If this issue is just treated as a conflict with feminist ideology, it will be very hard to make headway. The bigger task is massive to remove the rot, people won't take it on board because the scale will cause them to doubt it, and the feminists will keep screaming about protecting girls and making boys into better man shaped objects. I think facing that you can either charge up the hill to stickfight the fart, or you can use a different approach. You can challenge parents to stop abusing their children, and they are abusing them if keep them drugged up, and deny them activity that is actually beneficial for them educationally and for their well being.

    The point is 'sacrificing boys to favour girls' is our language and perspective, it's not how it's being sold to parents. They don't go to a mother and say that. It would be too heartbreaking to believe most American mothers are that far gone that they'd knowingly do that to their sons. But the data shows that parents are doing things on a teacher's or school's advice without being informed that this is ideologically motivated and harmful for their sons. That a feminist fake educationalist is pushing advice on them that is hurting their boy.

    The need to tackle feminism, should not mean you don't go head to head on the issues as human rights issues. And you need to tackle the decision makers and influencers. The primary decision makers about education are parents. The stakes are this stark, they can either demand a proper education for their boys and girls, or watch and do nothing as they get made mentally ill and likely future suicide victims.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

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    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    Incredibly important - very interesting. Add to this the fact that in France, there is no ADHD, it's not recognized as a diagnosis. Lucky kids.
    The West has also a store of experiences with alternative pedagogics, in Montessori schools and similar approaches.

    It's also a huge project ... I suspect that technology is going to play a role we are not yet able to grasp. Video-game-like environments will play a large part of this, because they can make learning effortless.
    One challenge is to round off this with the old 'music' disciplines, i.e. the subjects where you produce instead of consume output: drawing, craft, theatre, oratory and, yes, music.
    It must also be rounded off with a physical regimen of some sorts, a "sports +". I'd have all kids doing kids' judo for three or four years, just to learn rough-n-tumble.

    But the stuff Robinson is advocating is not something you just propose at a PTA meeting. That is a very large edifice to clear out, there.

    M
    Definitely a huge edifice. He's trying to get change in the UK, which is nowhere near as far gone as the US. And yeah not something just for PTA meetings. I don't know how universal political issues are, but education policy has always been a massive one in the UK. I must imagine that Americans feel the same.

    When Trump first got elected, some within the MRM were saying there would be a presidential meeting on the issues of men and boys. This must be something Trump would not just ignore, the guy is a parent.

    Can't base educational policy on: Boys are stupid, drug em up with ritalin, drive them into depression and watch them commit suicide before they finish college.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

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    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    And yeah not something just for PTA meetings. I don't know how universal political issues are, but education policy has always been a massive one in the UK.
    What's left out is of course that nobody beats a path to your door for the better mousetrap.
    If the education system is tailored to, let's call it "societal needs" to keep it politically neutral , it may not be possible to change the one without the other.

    M

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    Senior Member Equity's Avatar
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    Very insightful thread/video voidspawn of what is a very important issue particularly pertinent to men's and boy's rights within the UK.

    Institutionalised feminism through its gender initiatives, organisations, governmental policies, quotas etc has had a devastating impact on the education system in this country over the past 60 years, particularly on men and boys (5). I'm just going to throw some statistics at you guys:

    Women outnumber men in 112 out of 180 degrees in this country (1)
    Women from poorer backgrounds are 50% more likely to enter university than men from poorer backgrounds (1).
    Women are 32% more likely to enter higher tariff courses than men (2).
    Women outnumber men in the majority of universities in the UK and in some by a ratio of 4 to 1 (3).

    Males are officially recognised as a disadvantaged group in education in this country (4) whilst females are considered an advantaged group within education and the gap is getting wider and wider (6, 2). Yet despite this, the government carries on with its sexist, pro-women gender initiatives and its neglect of men.

    We need a revolution in the education system...desperately.

    1. https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...ars-ucas-study
    2. https://twitter.com/i/web/status/809709961890635780
    3. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...tio-table.html
    4. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...ged-group.html
    5. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...y-degrees.html
    6. https://www.ucas.com/corporate/news-...ver-150-higher
    Last edited by Equity; 04-04-2017 at 02:14 AM.

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    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    I think children, parents and society can't afford to wait until that debate is won. The issue of boys achievement and meaningful, productive and happy experience for boys or more precisely a lack of one is an issue that can be raised without even mentioning feminism. There is value in doing that, parents are going to care about their children. There is strong evidence that they are being fooled and lied to about the education they take children to and pay for. This guy is lecturing in the UK using the US as an example of what not to do to our children. He even uses a map of how much Americans dope up their kids, and we know that that is mostly boys. Professional educators in other countries find it a morbid joke. The animated style is just an RSA presentation of lectures he's been giving for a while.



    Children aren't just suffering because of the direct baloney classes on appropriate behaviour. There is a deeply embedded ideological bias that is usurping good educational sense. Sometimes it takes something that should be wholly innocuous to bring the point home about how deeply invasive it is. I probably mentioned I used to work in education and I've mentored teachers using Bloom's Taxonomy. Whilst going through this with someone we looked at the revised model, coming across this example here: http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/cour...axonomy/#table, that page looks pretty dull and innocuous but the table is meant to define a hierarchy of learning accomplishment. The table is clickable and gives an example in a pop up. "Actualize" in this table is given as the highest form of learning activity and when you click the example it gives this: http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/cour.../actualize.htm.

    It is pretty undeniable and horrendous how deeply inveigled feminist ideologues are in the education system. However children are suffering, people are letting this happen to their kids, and even a thousand miles away from US shores, you guys are being held up as an example of how not to treat children. This is in countries that insist on taking thousands of migrants with no plan or checking.



    If this issue is just treated as a conflict with feminist ideology, it will be very hard to make headway. The bigger task is massive to remove the rot, people won't take it on board because the scale will cause them to doubt it, and the feminists will keep screaming about protecting girls and making boys into better man shaped objects. I think facing that you can either charge up the hill to stickfight the fart, or you can use a different approach. You can challenge parents to stop abusing their children, and they are abusing them if keep them drugged up, and deny them activity that is actually beneficial for them educationally and for their well being.

    The point is 'sacrificing boys to favour girls' is our language and perspective, it's not how it's being sold to parents. They don't go to a mother and say that. It would be too heartbreaking to believe most American mothers are that far gone that they'd knowingly do that to their sons. But the data shows that parents are doing things on a teacher's or school's advice without being informed that this is ideologically motivated and harmful for their sons. That a feminist fake educationalist is pushing advice on them that is hurting their boy.

    The need to tackle feminism, should not mean you don't go head to head on the issues as human rights issues. And you need to tackle the decision makers and influencers. The primary decision makers about education are parents. The stakes are this stark, they can either demand a proper education for their boys and girls, or watch and do nothing as they get made mentally ill and likely future suicide victims.

    All of that is true-- but you have to start SOMEHOW by *waking them up*.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    Definitely a huge edifice. He's trying to get change in the UK, which is nowhere near as far gone as the US. And yeah not something just for PTA meetings. I don't know how universal political issues are, but education policy has always been a massive one in the UK. I must imagine that Americans feel the same.

    When Trump first got elected, some within the MRM were saying there would be a presidential meeting on the issues of men and boys. This must be something Trump would not just ignore, the guy is a parent.

    Can't base educational policy on: Boys are stupid, drug em up with ritalin, drive them into depression and watch them commit suicide before they finish college.

    Yeah, but based on what I've seen so far, I don't think that's going to be happening.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



    The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men

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  10. #10
    id choose this as a spearhead issue over circumcision
    A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

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