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Thread: "Narrative" - Please stop using that word!

  1. #21
    Senior Member Maxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamilleLion View Post
    ::begin rant::

    Any time you hear the word 'narrative', it should signal to you that what you are hearing is a work of fiction... some sort of intersectional, social constructivist, nonsense - where things are cherry-picked to support a pre-determined argument, and since ANYTHING can be arranged that way - if you look hard enough it's not sound reasoning.

    Please, please, please can the MRA's STOP using that word, FFS - OMG, we don't need "narratives" or counter-anything... we need to divorce ourselves from that ideology and approach and use: facts, reason, logic, etc.. to argue with instead.

    Please stop indulging them in their own nonsense!

    ::end rant::
    A 'narrative' isn't a work of fiction.

    It's about the calculated selection, organization and omission of FACTS in order to advance an ideological agenda...

    Example -

    NARRATIVE 1- Guy A killed guy B.

    NARRATIVE 2- Guy A killed guy B because he was angry.

    NARRATIVE 3- Guy A killed Guy B because he was angry that Guy B was in his daughter's bedroom.

    NARRATIVE 4- Guy A killed Guy B because he was angry that Guy B was in his 9 year old daughter's bedroom.

    NARRATIVE 5 -Guy A killed Guy B because he was angry that Guy B was naked and in his 9 year old daughter's bedroom.

    Hypothetically each of these narratives could literally be based on objective statements of fact. None of these narratives contradict each other factually speaking.

    Yet they could be used to further vastly different social political or ideological agendas.

    Narrative 1 could be used as an example of how it's almost always men that kill other men. Narrative 2 could be used to make the case that men with anger management issues need to go into therapy or get on psycho-active meds or else they might kill other people in a violent rage. Narrative 3 could be used to condemn over protective traditionalist fathers who try to excessively control their daughters lives.

    By the time you get to Narratives 4 and 5 you've got a pretty different picture than you did when all these additional facts where selectively omitted.

    I don't know how critics of feminism are supposed to talk about it effectively without identifying the narratives presented by their opponents and then pointing out the various critical omissions upon which those narratives depend?
    "Being a cunt doesn't make you wrong." ComradePrescott

  2. #22
    Senior Member CamilleLion's Avatar
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    Yes - but the key is to make sure it ONLY applies to them and not adopt it ourselves! They are too stupid to know the difference and in fact proudly use it as though it is erudite.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune View Post
    This is pretty much what I came here to write.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    lol Yes, maybe!

    ''Narrative'' has almost become a derogatory way of describing progressive secularism and feminism, so it's an ''easy'' term to grab when you want to describe the ''spell'' that the culture has fallen under, with regards to feminism
    "De-polarize women and re-moralize men." - Me

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by CamilleLion View Post
    Well check this out:
    Ah I get what you saying but I don't see the same thing yr seeing in that instance.

    When I read that, I hear the exact same thing youre saying
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

  4. #24
    Senior Member CamilleLion's Avatar
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    It is true that "narrative" does not necessarily mean fiction but it leaves room for it (lots of room) and as such I would avoid using it. The way to talk about it is to expose the flawed "logic" at work. I'm not saying you cannot identify their narratives - I'm saying that you should avoid making your own - deal with facts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune View Post
    This is pretty much what I came here to write.
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxx View Post
    A 'narrative' isn't a work of fiction.

    It's about the calculated selection, organization and omission of FACTS in order to advance an ideological agenda...

    Example -

    NARRATIVE 1- Guy A killed guy B.

    NARRATIVE 2- Guy A killed guy B because he was angry.

    NARRATIVE 3- Guy A killed Guy B because he was angry that Guy B was in his daughter's bedroom.

    NARRATIVE 4- Guy A killed Guy B because he was angry that Guy B was in his 9 year old daughter's bedroom.

    NARRATIVE 5 -Guy A killed Guy B because he was angry that Guy B was naked and in his 9 year old daughter's bedroom.

    Hypothetically each of these narratives could literally be based on objective statements of fact. None of these narratives contradict each other factually speaking.

    Yet they could be used to further vastly different social political or ideological agendas.

    Narrative 1 could be used as an example of how it's almost always men that kill other men. Narrative 2 could be used to make the case that men with anger management issues need to go into therapy or get on psycho-active meds or else they might kill other people in a violent rage. Narrative 3 could be used to condemn over protective traditionalist fathers who try to excessively control their daughters lives.

    By the time you get to Narratives 4 and 5 you've got a pretty different picture than you did when all these additional facts where selectively omitted.

    I don't know how critics of feminism are supposed to talk about it effectively without identifying the narratives presented by their opponents and then pointing out the various critical omissions upon which those narratives depend?
    Last edited by CamilleLion; 04-12-2017 at 10:00 PM.
    "De-polarize women and re-moralize men." - Me

  5. #25
    Senior Member Deidre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamilleLion View Post
    It is true that "narrative" does not necessarily mean fiction but it leaves room for it (lots of room) and as such I would avoid using it. The way to talk about it is to expose the flawed "logic" at work. I'm not saying you cannot identify their narratives - I'm saying that you should avoid making your own - deal with facts.
    I see what you're saying, that we run the risk of creating our own narrative, as a counter to the feminist/secular progressive narrative that pervades our culture. ?

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by CamilleLion View Post
    I'm saying that you should avoid making your own - deal with facts.
    well, part of the problem is they Hegel the facts right of the table and substitute "the narrative"...they're fattening the dialectic

    my response is to not engage in the ways they demand.

    ...sorta the same thing yr saying
    Last edited by MatrixTransform; 04-12-2017 at 10:04 PM.
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

  7. #27
    Senior Member CamilleLion's Avatar
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    Yes, that's part of it - then you have to sort out their's vs your's and what is fact and what is fiction... if you fight with facts and avoid their fuzzy use of language you have a much stronger position.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune View Post
    This is pretty much what I came here to write.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deidre View Post
    I see what you're saying, that we run the risk of creating our own narrative, as a counter to the feminist/secular progressive narrative that pervades our culture. ?
    "De-polarize women and re-moralize men." - Me

  8. #28
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    The pen is in your hand.

    Don't allow society to dictate the narrative of your life.
    Be the author of your own story.

    http://anearformen.com/

    Hmmm not looked at that site for a while... well I can say the space between 'pen' and 'is' is very well placed. Without it, it would change the narrative.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  9. #29
    Senior Member CamilleLion's Avatar
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    it would change the interpretation and meaning.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mifune View Post
    This is pretty much what I came here to write.
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    The pen is in your hand.

    Don't allow society to dictate the narrative of your life.
    Be the author of your own story.

    http://anearformen.com/

    Hmmm not looked at that site for a while... well I can say the space between 'pen' and 'is' is very well placed. Without it, it would change the narrative.
    "De-polarize women and re-moralize men." - Me

  10. #30
    Senior Member malcolm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CamilleLion View Post
    This statement says nothing though about why the MRM uses it. It says:

    1. Feminist use the term to essentially "create" a narrative (wether or not there is evidence for it) to fit a predetermined and desired outcome that is politically expedient for them. - We all know this to be true.

    2. It is 'important' - to whom (apart from the above group of people), why?

    3. Feminists get upset when their narrative is attacked (with what - another narrative or facts, reason, examples, logic, proof, etc...) - We all know this to be true.

    4. Feminist and their narrative conclude women = good and men = bad. - We all know this to be true.

    None of these points address WHY you all adopt its use though - you've see the damage it does up close and personal?

    ... and no, I'm not here to troll you or tell you what to do - just providing you some feedback, do with it what you wish.
    You yourself have just used the word "narrative"to try and make your point.

    It's the same thing as someone who is afraid to fly objecting to the use of the word äirplane".
    “No one is free who has not obtained the empire of himself. No man is free who cannot command himself.”
    ― Pythagoras

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