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Thread: How to Raise a Feminist Son

  1. #1

    How to Raise a Feminist Son

    Feminism still working on a method to to rise a boy into something different than a man... here the latest update.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/02/u...inist-son.html

    We’re now more likely to tell our daughters they can be anything they want to be — an astronaut and a mother, a tomboy and a girlie girl. But we don’t do the same for our sons.

    Even as we’ve given girls more choices for the roles they play, boys’ worlds are still confined, social scientists say. They’re discouraged from having interests that are considered feminine. They’re told to be tough at all costs, or else to tamp down their so-called boy energy.
    And at the same time discourage to have interest that are considered masculine... Because boys have to be invisible so girls can shine all day long.

    If we want to create an equitable society, one in which everyone can thrive, we need to also give boys more choices. As Gloria Steinem says, “I’m glad we’ve begun to raise our daughters more like our sons, but it will never work until we raise our sons more like our daughters.”
    ???

    That’s because women’s roles can’t expand if men’s don’t, too. But it’s not just about women. Men are falling behind in school and work because we are not raising boys to succeed in the new, pink economy. Skills like cooperation, empathy and diligence — often considered to be feminine — are increasingly valued in modern-day work and school, and jobs that require these skills are the fastest-growing.
    Totally dilutional... you can't run a real economy on feelings... somewhere in the underworld there must be real work getting done, while on the surface there is this "pink economy" that does not acknowledge the existence of the real wealth producers... Just like any 80s futuristic dystopian movie.

    In her new book, Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie, the Nigerian-born author, gives instructions for raising a feminist daughter. But how can we raise feminist sons?

    I asked neuroscientists, economists, psychologists and others to answer that question, based on the latest research and data we have about gender. I defined feminist simply, as someone who believes in the full equality of men and women. Their advice applied broadly: to anyone who wants to raise children who are kind, confident and free to pursue their dreams.
    So she talk to her circle of friends... probably in a bar... but she want us to think that this is actual solid research, and the opinion of a diverse team of professionals... got it... so let's see this advise...

    Let him cry

    Boys and girls cry the same amount when they’re babies and toddlers, research shows. It’s around age 5 that boys get the message that anger is acceptable but that they’re not supposed to show other feelings, like vulnerability, said Tony Porter, co-founder of A Call to Men, an education and advocacy group.

    “Our daughters are allowed to be human beings, and our sons are taught to be robotic,” he said. “Teach him that he has a full range of emotions, to stop and say, ‘I’m not angry; I’m scared, or my feelings are hurt, or I need help.’”
    I still don't understand the obsession feminists have about men crying... then they turn around and mock them, few months ago it was the campaign about drinking male tears, right now it is the mockery of "men sensitivities" about a girls only movie show...

    But here it is again, the feminist encouraging men to show feelings while on the other hand they can't stop mocking men that actually do this...

    Give him role models

    Boys are particularly responsive to spending time with role models, even more than girls, research shows. There is growing evidence that boys raised in households without a father figure fare worse in behavior, academics and earnings. One reason, according to the economists David Autor and Melanie Wasserman, is they do not see men taking on life’s responsibilities. “Put good men in the space of your son,” Mr. Porter said.

    Give them strong female role models, too. Talk about the achievements of women you know, and well-known women in sports, politics or media. Sons of single mothers usually have a lot of respect for their accomplishments, said Tim King, founder of Urban Prep Academies for low-income, African-American boys. He encourages them to see other women that way.
    We start up with the father out of the picture, and then the mythological "good man"... the good man that woman seek so much but never really finds... he must be the solution to this problem too...

    Let him be himself

    Even as adult gender roles have merged, children’s products have become more divided by gender than they were 50 years ago, research has found: pink princesses and blue trucks, not just in the toy aisle but on cups and toothbrushes. It’s no wonder that children’s interests end up aligning that way.

    But neuroscientists say children aren’t born with those preferences. Until the mid-20th century, pink was the boy color and blue was for girls. In studies, infants have not been shown to have strong toy preferences. The difference, according to researchers, emerges at the same time that children become aware of their gender, around age 2 or 3, at which point societal expectations can override innate interests. Yet longitudinal studies suggest that toy segregation has long-term effects on gender gaps in academics, spatial skills and social skills, according to Campbell Leaper, chairman of the psychology department at the University of California, Santa Cruz.

    For children to reach their full potential, they need to follow their interests, traditional or not. So let them. The idea is not to assume that all children want to do the same things, but to make sure they’re not limited.

    Offer open-ended activities, like playing with blocks or clay, and encourage boys to try activities like dress-up or art class, even if they don’t seek them out, social scientists say. Call out stereotypes. (“It’s too bad that toy box shows all girls because I know boys also like to play with dollhouses.”) It could also improve the status of women. Researchers say the reason parents encourage daughters to play soccer or become doctors, but not sons to take ballet or become nurses, is that “feminine” equals lower status.
    "Let him be himself" says the title, then it shows a graphic of a boy exploring transvestism...

    This is very in line with that concept of raising boys more like girls... still I fail to see the gain on this... going out of their way to encourage boys into activities they are not interested on, while discouraging masculine activities...

    Teach him to take care of himself

    “Some mothers raise their daughters but love their sons,” said Jawanza Kunjufu, an author and lecturer on educating black boys. They make their daughters study, do chores and go to church, he said — but not their sons.

    The difference shows up in the data: American girls ages 10 to 17 spend two more hours on chores each week than boys do, and boys are 15 percent more likely to be paid for doing chores, according to a University of Michigan study.

    “Teach our sons to cook, clean and look after themselves — to be equally competent in the home as we would expect our daughters to be in the office,” said Anne-Marie Slaughter, chief executive of New America, a think tank.
    Oh yeah.. or find a "good man" that does this stuff so he can be a role model for this too...

    Feminism keeps trying to make home chores such a big deal, when it is not... it is all simple stuff, sometimes a bit of time consuming, but nothing complicated about any of that...

    Feminism wants to equate a job that requires years of education and experience, with... sweeping a floor...

    Teach him to take care of others

    Women still do more of the caregiving — for children and for older people — and the housework, even when both parents work full time, data show. And caregiving jobs are the fastest-growing. So teach boys to care for others.

    Talk about how men balance work and family, and how sons and not just daughters are expected to care for parents and relatives when they’re old, Ms. Slaughter said. Enlist boys’ help making soup for a sick friend or visiting a relative in the hospital. Give them responsibilities caring for pets and younger siblings. Encourage them to babysit, coach or tutor. One program brings babies into elementary classrooms, which has been found to increase empathy and decrease aggression.
    I see a pattern here to make the kids do your job... LOL.

    Share the work

    When possible, resist gender roles in housework and child care among parents. Actions speak louder than words, said Dan Clawson, a sociologist at the University of Massachusetts, Amherst: “If the mother cooks the food and cleans the house and the father mows the lawn and is often gone from home, lessons are learned.”

    Also share some of the breadwinning. Men raised by mothers who worked for at least a year around the time their sons were teenagers were more likely to marry women who work, one study showed. Another found that sons of women who work for any amount of time before age 14 spend more time on housework and child care as adults. “Men who were raised by employed moms are significantly more egalitarian in their gender attitudes,” said Kathleen McGinn, a professor at Harvard Business School.
    Ah, there you go... you can have it all after all... LOL.

    Encourage friendships with girls

    Research at Arizona State University found that by the end of preschool, children start segregating by sex, and this reinforces gender stereotypes. But children who are encouraged to play with friends of the opposite sex learn better problem-solving and communication.

    “The more obvious it is that gender is being used to categorize groups or activities, the more likely it is that gender stereotypes and bias are reinforced,” said Richard Fabes, director of the university’s Sanford School, which studies gender and education.

    Organize coed birthday parties and sports teams for young children, so children don’t come to believe it’s acceptable to exclude a group on the basis of sex, said Christia Brown, a developmental psychologist at the University of Kentucky. Try not to differentiate in language, either: One study found that when preschool teachers said “boys and girls” instead of “children,” the students held more stereotypical beliefs about men’s and women’s roles and spent less time playing with one another.
    Somehow all this studies are about how language affects people and how simple changes in language will fix the perceived problems...

    Anyway, as things are today, I'd say it is girls the ones that are segregating, they are the ones that want girl only clubs and they are the ones that don't want to hang around with boys...

    Teach ‘no means no’

    Other ways to teach respect and consent: Require children to ask before they touch one another’s bodies as early as preschool. Also, teach them the power of the word no — stop tickling them or wrestling with them when they say it.

    Model healthy problem-solving at home. Children’s exposure to divorce or abuse has been linked to poor conflict resolution in future romantic relationships, said W. Bradford Wilcox, a sociologist and director of the National Marriage Project at the University of Virginia.
    What "no" have to do with divorces??? LOKL... can a kid say "no" and the parents stop their divorce???

    Anyway... never is too early to teach boys not to rape...

    Speak up when others are intolerant

    Say something when you see teasing or harassment, and role-play with boys so they can intervene when they see it, Ms. Brown said.

    Speak up when they’re inappropriate, too. “Boys will be boys” is not an excuse for bad behavior. Expect more of them. “Be vigilant in redirecting conduct which is demeaning, intolerant, disrespectful, offensive,” Mr. King said.
    At least half the advice giving so far is straight out sexist and an attack in manhood, the other half is more or less in a gray area...

    Never use ‘girl’ as an insult

    Don’t say — and don’t let your son say — that someone throws or runs like a girl, or use “sissy” or any of its more offensive synonyms. Same for sexist jokes.

    Be careful with subtler language, too. The research of Emily Kane, a sociologist at Bates College, shows that parents enforce traditional gender roles for sons mostly because they fear those sons will be teased. “We can all help by avoiding judgment, and avoiding small, everyday assumptions about what a kid will enjoy or be good at based on their gender,” she said. Boys who get teased could say, “No, anyone can play with beads,” or “I am not a girl, but do you think they’re worse than boys?” said Lise Eliot, a neuroscientist at Rosalind Franklin University.
    Thinking about this... I just notice that the title of this whole thing is about how to raise a son into a feminist... not how to raise a son into a good man... a little language slip there for someone that cares so much about language as this feminist does...

    Read a lot, including about girls and women

    You’ve probably heard that boys excel at science and math, and girls at language and reading. Stereotypes can become self-fulfilling. Mothers talk more with daughters than sons, according to a meta-analysis by Mr. Leaper. Fight the stereotype by talking to boys, reading to them and encouraging them to read.

    Read about a wide variety of people, and stories that break the mold, not just those about boys saving the world and girls needing to be saved. When a book or a news item fits that mold, talk about it: Why does the mother in the “Berenstain Bears” always wear a housecoat and rarely leave the house? Why does a news photograph show all white men?

    “That should start at 3, when they really pick up stereotypes and notice them,” Ms. Brown said. “If you don’t help them label them as stereotypes, they assume this is the way it is.”
    Sounds a lot like indoctrination to me.. but what do I know???

    I read a lot, and I never really chose my reading material on the bases of gender... somehow I find this point of view petty.

    Celebrate boyhood

    Raising a son this way isn’t just about telling boys what not to do, or about erasing gender differences altogether. For instance, all male mammals engage in rough-and-tumble play, Ms. Eliot said.

    So roughhouse, crack jokes, watch sports, climb trees, build campfires. Teach boys to show strength — the strength to acknowledge their emotions. Teach them to provide for their families — by caring for them. Show them how to be tough — tough enough to stand up to intolerance. Give them confidence — to pursue whatever they’re passionate about.
    How can you celebrate boyhood if all the time you was hammering down this "be more like girls" narrative???

  2. #2
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Girls are very touchy-feely with each other. What's going to happen when that "Feminized" boy grows up into a man with hormones and "needs" and is socialized to understand / believe that being "touchy-feely" with girls is okay? The first time he touches one in anything remotely resembling any way that could be construed as "sexual" (whether it was or wasn't) he's going to be demonized, vilified and possibly hauled up on sexual assault charges.

    That's because he's not an actual girl. He's a man-- and can't rid himself of "masculinity" no matter what actions he takes or changes he undergoes. Unless he is born a true girl, he'll never be accepted into female society-- and thus "Feminist" society. He will always be a "male" and have a lower status than his "Feminist" sisters.

    Feminism is a hate group and Feminists are hateful people. It isn't about equality. It was never about equality. It's always only been about hating men.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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  3. #3
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleman View Post
    Feminism still working on a method to to rise a boy into something different than a man... here the latest update.
    NYTimes - full of good stuff.
    Here's the latest update to the latest update - a readers' feedback column.
    Readers ask question that very often border on MRA stuff, and two experts thell them why it ain't so.
    If I was a millionaire, I'd pay people a dollar for every silly expert contradiction ...

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...questions.html


    M

  4. #4
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Hi,

    nice .... Some further comments.
    A lot of the comments are about small words, inconsequential stuff, almost too petty to mention - if it were in isolation.
    But the misandry is somehow baked into every sentence, every turn of phrase, to make for a constant drip-drip-drip of ideology in our ears.
    Time to wax'em.

    We raise our girls to fight stereotypes and pursue their dreams, but we don’t do the same for our boys.
    We’re now more likely to tell our daughters they can be anything they want to be — an astronaut and a mother, a tomboy and a girlie girl. But we don’t do the same for our sons.
    Note that there is no mention of who "we" are.

    They’re told to be tough at all costs, or else to tamp down their so-called boy energy.
    At age 5, they begin to understand male disposability, and the disdain that aunts of all ages and sexes hold for boys' exuberance.

    If we want to create an equitable society, one in which everyone can thrive, we need to also give boys more choices.
    Or simply just stop taking them away.

    Men are falling behind in school and work because we are not raising boys to succeed in the new, pink economy.
    My bet is that this explanation does not really capture the true cause. Very 'soft touch' manipulation, there.

    Skills like cooperation, empathy and diligence — often considered to be feminine — are increasingly valued in modern-day work and school, and jobs that require these skills are the fastest-growing.
    Yeah, and million men armies show that men can't cooperate, the effing invention of medicine and psychology shows that men have no empathy, and landing on the moon that they have no diligence.
    Right.


    Let him cry
    It’s around age 5 that boys get the message that anger is acceptable but that they’re not supposed to show other feelings, like vulnerability, said Tony Porter, co-founder of A Call to Men, an education and advocacy group.
    “Our daughters are allowed to be human beings, and our sons are taught to be robotic,” he said. “Teach him that he has a full range of emotions, to stop and say, ‘I’m not angry; I’m scared, or my feelings are hurt, or I need help.’”
    'I need help' ...? When has that ever helped a man?
    Fist esablish some facilities where men can get help; then, perhaps.

    Give him role models
    There is growing evidence that boys raised in households without a father figure fare worse in behavior, academics and earnings.
    Note: "father figure". Not "father".

    “Put good men in the space of your son,” Mr. Porter said.
    Shame on mr. Porter, then.
    "Put some other good men in the space of you son's father"?

    Sons of single mothers usually have a lot of respect for their accomplishments, said Tim King, founder of Urban Prep Academies for low-income, African-American boys.
    Having known nothing else, it's no wonder.

    Let him be himself
    As if ...
    Stop claiming they're girls born into a boy's body and they need gender reassignment, you mean?
    How fascist.

    encourage boys to try activities like dress-up or art class
    We're already the best dress makers and artists, thank you.

    Researchers say the reason parents encourage daughters to play soccer or become doctors, but not sons to take ballet or become nurses, is that “feminine” equals lower status.
    Another fake cause? Because it pays less to be a nurse than a doctor, maybe?

    Teach him to take care of himself
    “Some mothers raise their daughters but love their sons,” said Jawanza Kunjufu, an author and lecturer on educating black boys. They make their daughters study, do chores and go to church, he said — but not their sons.
    If that's true, I'd interpret that as them not caring about their boys.

    “Teach our sons to cook, clean and look after themselves
    We already do the first two.
    The third would come by itself if boys weren't taught they're worthless.

    Teach him to take care of others
    Women still do more of the caregiving — for children and for older people
    So stop it with the pedo suspicions.

    and the housework, even when both parents work full time, data show.
    Women's housework, that is. Because "data" doesn't show men's housework

    Talk about how men balance work and family
    Wlaking the fine line between damned for not/doing, and then getting divorced.

    and how sons and not just daughters are expected to care for parents and relatives when they’re old
    Nah. Women have achieved professionalization of huge chunks of "women's work" - caring for the young (female kindergarten and school staff), the sick (female doctors and nurses), and the old (female doctors and nurses),
    i.e. getting paid for their share of "home work" already. I doubt they want to share.
    Now they're happy to "share our share", though, they want to be appointed CEO's, but that has to come on more merit than gender.

    Enlist boys’ help making soup for a sick friend or visiting a relative in the hospital. Give them responsibilities caring for pets and younger siblings. Encourage them to babysit, coach or tutor.
    One program brings babies into elementary classrooms, which has been found to increase empathy and decrease aggression.
    My guess is because suddenly females express that men can have some value after all, making soup and stuff.

    Encourage friendships with girls
    I'm sure a lot of boys would love to be friends with girls.
    Perhaps encourage the girls to be friends with boys, too?

    Teach ‘no means no’
    As in "No means, no, Miss Teacher" ...?

    Model healthy problem-solving at home. Children’s exposure to divorce or abuse has been linked to poor conflict resolution in future romantic relationships, said W. Bradford Wilcox, a sociologist and director of the National Marriage Project at the University of Virginia.
    I.e., stop divorcing husbands and fathers.

    Speak up when others are intolerant
    Say something when you see teasing or harassment, and role-play with boys so they can intervene when they see it, Ms. Brown said.
    We try, but feminists get angry when we intervene against harassment of men and boys.

    Never use ‘girl’ as an insult
    Don’t say — and don’t let your son say — that someone throws or runs like a girl, or use “sissy” or any of its more offensive synonyms. Same for sexist jokes.
    Sry, the image of an old and sour aunt just won't go away.

    Be careful with subtler language, too. The research of Emily Kane, a sociologist at Bates College, shows that parents enforce traditional gender roles for sons mostly because they fear those sons will be teased. “We can all help by avoiding judgment, and avoiding small, everyday assumptions about what a kid will enjoy or be good at based on their gender,” she said.
    The cheerful ignorance of statements like these are particularly cruel, I think.

    Read a lot, including about girls and women
    You’ve probably heard that boys excel at science and math, and girls at language and reading. Stereotypes can become self-fulfilling.
    If your stupid enough to hold them.

    Mothers talk more with daughters than sons, according to a meta-analysis by Mr. Leaper. Fight the stereotype by talking to boys, reading to them and encouraging them to read.
    Too late. Once boys have learned that their feelings don't matter, females have little to talk to boys about.

    And here's to you, mr E: Yes, the fems are touchy-feely, and lack the first clue of insight that men are different, and that it is possible to be different in the first place.
    They're simply blind to how us other people are doing it, and if they spot a difference, they'll complain that it is "bad" _because_ it's different.

    Read about a wide variety of people, and stories that break the mold
    Yeah ... like .... when is the last time you saw a male hero for boys to admire?
    (And don't say "Harry Potter", because HP is a princess in a boy's body ...)

    not just those about boys saving the world and girls needing to be saved.
    How fortunate we are to live in such an age as ours, than, we that now have both "Ghostbusters (Girls' edt.)" and "Wonder Woman".

    When a book or a news item fits that mold, talk about it: Why does the mother in the “Berenstain Bears” always wear a housecoat and rarely leave the house? Why does a news photograph show all white men?
    And no desert until they know why "all white men" is really, really bad.

    “That should start at 3, when they really pick up stereotypes and notice them,” Ms. Brown said. “If you don’t help them label them as stereotypes, they assume this is the way it is.”
    Or: if you wait until they can think, it's too late to indoctrinate them.

    Celebrate boyhood
    Raising a son this way isn’t just about telling boys what not to do
    Yes, it is. Who you think you kiddin'?

    or about erasing gender differences altogether. For instance, all male mammals engage in rough-and-tumble play, Ms. Eliot said.
    And so your son, another male mammal, should be allowed some supervised so-called "play" time.

    So roughhouse, crack jokes, watch sports, climb trees, build campfires.
    Teach boys to show strength — the strength to acknowledge their emotions.
    Teach them to provide for their families — by caring for them.
    Show them how to be tough — tough enough to stand up to intolerance.
    Give them confidence — to pursue whatever they’re passionate about.
    But if you don't have the time - the life of a modern woman is sooooo stressful - just teach them to provide. For someone - anyone, really, as long as it's not themselves.
    Dates.
    Girlfriends.
    Girlfriends' kids.
    Ex-wives.
    At worst, if needs must, their own families.

    M
    Last edited by Manalysis; 06-12-2017 at 12:17 AM.

  5. #5
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    "I discussed this issue often with my two sons; the Southerner in me meant that I taught them always to allow women to exit an elevator first. I came to agree with their point that these behaviors were holdovers from a time when women were regarded as unequal. They still do it, but just as good manners, not chivalry."

    REALLY?? GOOD MANNERS??? REALLY???

    What a fucking CUNT.

    **WHY** is it "GOOD MANNERS" ??
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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