Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 18 of 18

Thread: Why Men Die

  1. #11
    Because we seem to have a lot of misunderstandings on this board, let me explain if for those with reading problems.

    On a comment about cancer, I think it was, I said correctly that everyone I had known with cancer was extremely ornery, though I don't remember the exact words. And, that I had never known personally a kid with cancer. Both of these things were and still are true.

    But, when people posted that my experiences did not correctly represent reality overall, my first comment back was that I needed to 1. Reach down. 2. Grab both ears. 3. Pull.

    In other words, I admitted that I had had my head up my ***. I think that was a pretty abject admission I was in the wrong. So, is this a SJW thing, where if you mess up you are guilty forever, or what?

    Yet, I got called numbnuts and vicious. So, tell me right out if admitting I had my head up my *** isn't enough, exactly what is enough? Blowing out my brains? What?

  2. #12
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    4,661
    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    So, is this a SJW thing, where if you mess up you are guilty forever, or what?
    Safest time to kick, when a man's down, innit?

    M

  3. #13
    Not long ago, a man on a board or blog cursed all men of my generation. He went on at great length, sending us to the hottest parts of Hell for all eternity. Why? Because we did nothing to stop the feminist attacks on men. We were cowards who did nothing while all our human; civil; legal; and constitutional rights were systematically eliminated.

    Why did he think we did nothing? Because he personally knew nothing about what we did. How could he? The press in those days had complete control of the news, and they were liberal lying, scheming, leftie misandrists back then, too. No Internet and we had to communicate by newsletter, usually monthly.

    I am not the only activist from those days. There are others still out there who went through it.

    But, since Google doesn't pick us up we don't exist in the curser's eyes.

    So, what did we do? As far as I can tell, much more than most so-called activists today. We did learn that activism simply cannot work as long as the majority of voters are women, plus a lot of White Knights on their side.

    I had been writing militant op-eds to the local newspaper, in a city of around 100,000 people, for some years. In 1984, two members of a local Father's Rights Group committed suicide, one of them with gasoline in a public place. The local newspaper declined to cover the event, saying that it was a private matter. We all knew if a dearie killed herself over unpaid child support, it would be on the front page of very newspaper in the country for 10,000 years. [sarcasm.]

    Panicky, they asked me to come help them, At first, I declined. Later, I changed my mind. I realized right away that our meetings had to be designed to keep men alive, first and foremost. The second wives had been attending, supposedly to support us, but they mostly brought cookies and were there to control things. (100% of those helpful second wives eventually divorced their husbands.)

    So, when we started using meetings as a counseling session they complained we needed to encourage them to take it like men, whatever in Hell that means, and not to whine about their problems. And, they also insisted we had to be fair and spend half our time and money helping dearies. No matter that already the number one job of the government and every government office was helping dearies. We had to be fay-er and use half our limited resources to help them, too!

    So, I got rid of the Second Wives.

    I started telephone no-fee counseling for divorced men, and a few non-custodial women, though I would do nothing to help them get their kids back. All together, I spent around 20 hours a week, for the next ten years on various aspects of men's problems. I even taught a few men how to get custody from abusive women, which at that time was considered impossible, even though women commit around 56% of all child abuse.

    I also managed to get some publicity every few months. Not in our local newspaper, but in the big newspaper in the capitol. Our state president would pick up his local newspaper and there would be something on father's rights from our local.

    In 1987, after several years of development work, the local feminists wanted in open a visitation center. You know, a mean, evil, rapist dad could in addition to paying all her legal fees for jerking him around; plus property settlement; and alimony and child support, could also pay maybe $50 to see his babies for 2 hours, without being allowed to hold or kiss them.

    A few weeks before the public announcement, they decided it might work if they could get the male idiots from the FR group to back it. So, they finally sent us a letter asking for our support. We told them we'd need more information before we approved it. We knew very well the real goal of those fiends was to get all men on supervised visitation.

    A new officer objected, saying he knew the woman and she had visitation problems with her grandkids. We voted to reject it. So, dumass went to her contrary to the vote, told her only one unreasonable man was resistant, gave her the other names and phone numbers. We had an emergency meeting. We tried to explain to him that he couldn't just go and speak for the group contrary to the decisions of the committee. He screamed, "I will not be controlled."

    The other officers sat there like lumps letting him scream at me, as if it were a private matter between him and me. After a few minutes, I asked who wanted the mailing list and treasury. No one accepted it, so I went home and mailed everything to the state president. The local group returned into the muck from which it came.

    The state president sent me a letter authorizing me to be counselor-at-large out of his office. So, I continued doing what I had been doing, only one condition was to keep him posted on what I was doing. I kept this up until 1993, and stopped only because most of my hostility came from men I was helping, And, I realized I was enjoying their misery and despair too much to ethically counsel them.

    Most such groups lasted an average of 18 months. And, they failed the same way. A'holes who had no intention of ever doing anything, but attacking the usually one man who was making everything happen until he gave it up, while the other officers sat like bumps on a log. And, no matter what he did, there was always someone saying, "You are doing it wrong. You are doing it wrong." And, when they finally succeeded in shutting down the group would tell everyone, "I told them they were doing it wrong."

    That is the reason Paul Elam gets so much more done. His ideas aren't especially different or better than we had. But, you get on his main board and attack a worker and you are gone. Which is the way it has to be. Good ole' Suze is probably the fastest ban-ner in the West.

    Why don't the men of my generation come out and tell you what they did? If you even have to ask, re-read the above. No matter how you report it, you will be attacked. If nothing else, and you actually did a lot, as I did, you will be accused of bragging. So, for the most part the modern MRA;MHRA: FRA does not even deserve to know the history of the men's movement.

    Men are gaining, though. The marriage strike and expatting and celibacy is putting on a squeeze. When women have all the political power, men have nothing to take from women to force change. With the marriage strike, a lot of women are in a big hurt. Most of them still think maybe they will find a traditional husband, but the numbers of women who know they have screwed the pooch is growing.

    My opinion hasn't changed, though, that total collapse of the US is due any moment. Unwin has too much data and everything is following along his views. Loss of religion; loss of productivity and innovation; social meltdown; you name it.

    Numbnuts? Really? Ala CYRANO if you were intelligent, you should be able to do better than that.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    Because we seem to have a lot of misunderstandings on this board, let me explain if for those with reading problems.

    On a comment about cancer, I think it was, I said correctly that everyone I had known with cancer was extremely ornery, though I don't remember the exact words. And, that I had never known personally a kid with cancer. Both of these things were and still are true.

    But, when people posted that my experiences did not correctly represent reality overall, my first comment back was that I needed to 1. Reach down. 2. Grab both ears. 3. Pull.

    In other words, I admitted that I had had my head up my ***. I think that was a pretty abject admission I was in the wrong. So, is this a SJW thing, where if you mess up you are guilty forever, or what?

    Yet, I got called numbnuts and vicious. So, tell me right out if admitting I had my head up my *** isn't enough, exactly what is enough? Blowing out my brains? What?
    just stop talking idiot.

    for apparently the smartest guy in the room, you sure do have a penchant for repeatedly saying very dumb stuff.
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

  5. #15
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    4,661
    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    Not long ago, a man on a board or blog cursed all men of my generation.
    I'll continue to nurse my curbed enthusiasm for Unwin; but your stories, and your story, are great.

    I have similar experiences from union work. How to break that pattern...?


    M

  6. #16
    @MT, I did not intend to let your insults go while thinking them over at length. It was inadvertent because of a young niece visiting me from the USA.

    Now that I have time to write more on it, let me ask you a question. When was the last time anyone else on here admitted he posted something with his head up his ***?

    I did. But, it is obvious you are not yet in adult mode, and simply refuse to accept that abject apology. So, you continue to attack me like a small, spoiled child. Idiot; idiotic; numbnuts; dumb; purple spot on your nose; and I think more on other threads.

    Let it go!!!! Grow up!!!! If you can't understand this, have someone explain "beating a dead horse." At this time, I suspect you plan to attack me until you drive me off the board. Good luck with that. I took more crap in that ten years then you can dish out, which is why I accomplished as much as I did. I understand Trump and his response to bullies. My approach was somewhat similar.

    My experience with cancer would be called a statistical aberration. I have never met a happy tranquil person who got cancer, and I have never personally known a kid with cancer. As soon as the first person corrected me, I realized I was writing an anecdotal thing, which is why anecdotal experiences are useless in anything scientific. No one (except a bully) gains anything by continuing a personal attack on me after I admitted I had totally screwed up.

    #####
    In a recent posting, I did not list all that I did during my ten years of activism. The Regional director of the CSRU, if I called him and told him I had a person with a problem, he did not tell me when to bring him in. He told me to tell him when we could come in and made his calendar work. He did not want the publicity of my much read op-eds.

    Since I was the first non-gov't employee to have the official employee's manual, if someone called and the government was violating the law, I knew it.

    We had a local contract child support collection agency, called Friend Of The Court. They apparently believed men's rights under the law meant nothing. About once a year, I would have a man tell me a story about FOTC doing something against the law. I would write it up and send it to the State Chief of Collections. She would respond with an explanation of the law in that area.In every case, my own understanding was correct.

    And, eventually, the man whose rights had been violated would call me back and tell me they had fixed things.

    And, eventually, the local newspaper had an interview with an official of FOTC. He whined the State office was making it hard to get money for those poor, poor, poor dearies with nit-picking on the laws. I thought I understood why he said that.

    Yesterday, I was driving through the mountains to pick up a young niece from the US who was coming to visit me. Winding mountain roads, requiring slow speeds. So, I was thinking about that FOTC event. After all these years, it came over me that I had not fully understood the FOTC events.

    I had, stupidly assumed all these years that those few cases I had submitted had somehow caused FOTC a lot of hassle. Yesterday, it came over me, this many years later that there was probably more than that involved.

    The State Office was legally responsible for actions of FOTC. So, when I gave the State Chief a verifiable violation of the regulation, as a very conscientious person, it is highly probable that she had someone do an audit and found FOTC was openly and brazenly violating that regulation for many men.

    Of course, I will never know. But, that seems probable. A handful of cases would not arouse that much ire from that contract agency.

    We had a man come to a meeting who worked for a while at FOTC. He said the women clerks usually had a large pile of accounts on their desk. When they encountered a woman who owed child support, they would take that folder and move it to the bottom of the stack. Which is why they seldom did anything to women who weren't paying.


    In my op-eds, I normally referred to c/s officials as slave-chasers. The similarity was extreme. Child support is totally contrary to all aspects of stated feminist goals.

    #####
    @Manalysis: how to break that pattern? History books show nothing ever stops this crap except total social breakdown. That is why all great civilizations eventually cease to exist.

    I am curious if you read any of Unwin? I admit it is hard reading. I made no sense out of it with the online PDF copy, but managed to get one of the last print copies, in terrible condition. I do not think anyone need apologize for not being able to make much sense out if it with on-line copy.

    But. I do see our society following along exactly as he says will happen when women have complete sexual liberty. Which is why I refer to him a lot.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    4,661
    Rep Power
    82
    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    @Manalysis: how to break that pattern? History books show nothing ever stops this crap except total social breakdown. That is why all great civilizations eventually cease to exist.
    I was referring to people who are in danger not lifting a finger to avert it. It's a mindset, too.

    I am curious if you read any of Unwin?
    I must admit that I have not, and so my preliminary judgement is based on what I've read about him and the book you reccommend.
    I think I've written this before, but we didn't get as far as any discussion then; but be that as it may:
    IIUC Unwin proposes a direct causal relationship between female promiscuity and the destruction of virtue, leading to the fall of Empires.
    The connection may well be a mere correlation, and so his thesis is too strong, at least for my taste.
    Of course it is an important symptom of changing mores, but I don't think it is the disease itself.

    But. I do see our society following along exactly as he says will happen when women have complete sexual liberty.
    Which is why I refer to him a lot.
    Well, even if he should turn out to be technically wrong, a sharp-eyed critic at least begins in the right place.
    He might be right, for all I know, I just can't, at present, say that I am convinced by the arguments I've seen.
    So it's technicalities.

    M

  8. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post

    My experience with cancer would be called a statistical aberration. I have never met a happy tranquil person who got cancer, and I have never personally known a kid with cancer. As soon as the first person corrected me, I realized I was writing an anecdotal thing, which is why anecdotal experiences are useless in anything scientific. No one (except a bully) gains anything by continuing a personal attack on me after I admitted I had totally screwed up.
    Listen Mensa man
    you have not apologized or admitted fault here.
    you have crapped on a lot about doing it somewhere else.
    possibly on a forum in a galaxy far far away.
    but not here

    the person here in this forum that pointed your bullshit out was indeed your's truly.

    You insult everybody's loved ones passed with cancer
    you insult every body with cancer
    you insult people who have children with cancer
    you insult people that have beaten cancer

    they are all here in this forum.

    all the time crowing about what nasty vicious people they are ... you poisonous cunt

    but you wouldnt be beating a dead horse would you?
    You wouldnt double down on stupidity would you?
    you wouldnt be playing DARVO and having slash whilst claiming to be victim would you?

    btw, personally I couldnt give a flying fuck what you think or whether you stay or go.

    You just dont matter...despite yr ever enlarging list of accomplishments and self awarded accolades.

    just quit insulting the memory of my father, grand-mother, grand-father, and nephew.

    You could say lots of things .... just not this.

    Now shut the fuck up about it ... that would be graceful.
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •