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Thread: Google Engineer's "Anti-Diversity" "Screed"

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    the media is too corrupted by greed and ideological bigotry. In other words the standard tools for raising and addressing issues have been rendered largely useless.

    Yes. That's capitalism for you. As in, when things have to be run as a business, business rules apply, for good or bad.
    One of the bad sides is that as the noise of many voices is increasing, you have to shout louder, shorter and simpler just for people to give you the time of 8 seconds. It's like the one guy who stands up in the theatre to see better, forcing everyone else to stand up, too, and in the end they all see equally bad, but now they have to watch standing instead of comfortably sitting down. The "yes, all of you, but not me", the lack of restraint. The race to the bottom.
    So media develop something akin to WWF wrestling, with fake fights, fake moves and fake faces. The only thing real is the hype.
    And people would rather watch the ostensive slamming than see e.g. olympic epee fencing. Too fast,too blurry.

    This is the arena where new subjects can emerge, as has happened with the MHRM.
    The price is to be pigeonholed as one of the masked morons, as has also happened with the MHRM.

    The only remedy is to improve education until this kind of sludge no longer satisfies the public.

    M

  2. #32
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

  3. #33
    Hi,

    Wiki already has an article in place. Surprisingly, it's not totally "Gamergated" yet:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google...l_Echo_Chamber .

    Interestingly, the last sentence there is about you guys:
    Christina Cauterucci of Slate Magazine drew parallels between arguments from Damore's memo and those of men's rights activists.
    That reads like she drew parallels between men's rights activists and Heinrich Himmler, doesn't it?

    This is her article:
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/xx_factor..._s_rights.html

    It opens like this:
    White men, studies have shown, do not like diversity policies. White men feel threatened by attempts to nurture diverse and inclusive workforces ....
    The underscore is not for emphasis, but to indicate a link to a source.

    Now, here is the source, a WBR article:
    https://hbr.org/2016/01/diversity-po...eel-threatened

    I beg indulgence from both WBR and the forum for including a lengthy quote:

    We put young white men through a hiring simulation for an entry-level job at a fictional technology firm. For half of the “applicants,” the firm’s recruitment materials briefly mentioned its pro-diversity values. For the other half, the materials did not mention diversity. In all other ways, the firm was described identically. All of the applicants then underwent a standardized job interview while we videotaped their performance and measured their cardiovascular stress responses.

    Compared to white men interviewing at the company that did not mention diversity, white men interviewing for the pro-diversity company expected more unfair treatment and discrimination against whites. They also performed more poorly in the job interview, as judged by independent raters. And their cardiovascular responses during the interview revealed that they were more stressed.

    Thus, pro-diversity messages signaled to these white men that they might be undervalued and discriminated against. These concerns interfered with their interview performance and caused their bodies to respond as if they were under threat. Importantly, diversity messages led to these effects regardless of these men’s political ideology, attitudes toward minority groups, beliefs about the prevalence of discrimination against whites, or beliefs about the fairness of the world. This suggests just how widespread negative responses to diversity may be among white men: the responses exist even among those who endorse the tenets of diversity and inclusion.
    Notice how the spin is worked.
    First: There is a difference between reality and imagination.
    Between swimming with crocodiles, and believing that crocodiles have somehow gotten into your pool.
    Between being threatened, and believing you are threatened.

    When it comes to workplace diversity, men are threatened, in the sense that every quota hiring means one qualified man fewer gets a job.

    Second: Obscure the difference between reality and imagination.
    The operative word here is "feel". It can apply both to imagination as well as to reality, as long as any real threat is also perceived.
    One could swim with crocodiles without knowing it, but once you know, you probably feel a bit unsafe.
    So yes, men "feel" threatened, but that is very often because they _are_ threatened, not because they imagine things.
    But after this spin, there is of course only male fear and loathing left.

    Then there is diversity training itself. Good Christina quotes an article on that, too; this time from the WSJ:
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/diversi...d/accounts-wsj
    Apparently, it is during diversity workshops that this fear and loathing becomes apparent. And why?

    Bill Proudman, CEO and co-founder of White Men as Full Diversity Partners, is one of many consultants trying to get beyond the angst by having men confront assumptions in a setting where they don’t feel “beaten and humiliated.”
    So, men think diversity seminars are unpleasant just because they get “beaten and humiliated”.
    Wimps, amirite?

    But of course, she gives away the feminist projection game herself. Girls just can't keep a secret.
    "Facile stereotypes and smears sound a lot less offensive when there’s an –ology word in the same sentence."

    Feminism in a nutshell. Also true, except for the "less offensive" part. They usually supply that extra. As in all the quoted article headlines.

    I could go on, but it's clear where all this is headed. I think you all know, too.


    I'll leave you with some words John Milton wrote in his 1644 Areopagitica:

    " For to distrust the judgement and the honesty of one who hath but a common repute in learning and never yet offended, as not to count him fit to print his mind without a tutor or examiner, lest he should drop a schism or something of corruption, is the greatest displeasure and indignity to a free and knowing spirit that can be put upon him."

    I found that in this Wiki article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilling_effect .

    Yep.


    Winter is coming.


    M
    Last edited by Manalysis; 08-12-2017 at 04:22 PM.

  4. #34
    it's all very interesting.
    I have direct and recent personal experience with the over qualified but under-useful female expert.
    Recently a company that I consult for took a female intern (intern, is nearly the same thing as a slave) any this woman has a PhD Electronic Eng and is apparently a wiz-bang programmer.

    So she wants to run some particular software on the Cloud Server that I administer for them. So I give her 'admin'...can't login.
    So I walk her through it with explicit instructions to run the Terminal Services Client and log in, and Certificates and shit.
    Fine she's in ... problem solved ....nah, of course not.

    She installs some piece of software that wants a MSSQL connection and she throws down the MSSQL.
    Gets an email to me... she cant connect to the database.
    FFS!
    So log in and install the MSSQL GUI so I can see whats going on, but cant press forward with the 'sa' login (short of re-installing)
    Of course she's lost that too.
    FFS!

    What I can tell is that she hasn't even created a database in the SQL server to even connect to.
    I email her back and let her know that is she wants to connect software 'X' to write to the HVAC database then she'll need to create it.
    And if she wants software 'Y' to get data from the HVAC database, then there will need to be an actual database.

    I wondered why the emailing stopped after a few days of no reply.
    Turns out the intern got a better offer and disappeared.
    Must be her superior qualifications and skills that land her the job offers, Heh?

    I've met teenagers that were more useful than her, granted that they couldnt write a Chebyshev Filter but they could at least install software.

    Jeez, I never even told you guys about the woman Electrician who was sent to install the new Range Hood over our stove...ffs! What a joke

    5' 4" blue haired lesbian with an attitude problem who couldn't even lift it outta the box.
    She's got the shits with me for even helping.
    Now, technically I am an Electrician, or at least I once was and putting this thing on the wall is fucking trivial.
    Not for this moron though ... after watching the uselessness for an hour I took pity on her and held the thing while the fuckwit fumbled with self-drilling screws.
    I just wanted the idiot outta my house.
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

  5. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    it's all very interesting.
    I have direct and recent personal experience with the over qualified but under-useful female expert.
    So where is the fault?
    Are businesses today as clumsy as ... hm ... well, the Pentagon (7000 billion dollars unaccounted for, I think it was)?
    Is this particular company at fault for hiring a bad applicant, or for not setting her entry level lower?
    (When a Japanese company hires a new CEO, he has to spend a few days working himself up from mail boy to the board room.
    Of course he doesn't deliver too many letters or spend much time at any function or really do much work at all, but the idea of it is kinda nifty.)
    Was this particular intern ruined by education?
    Or are women simply - gasp - useless?

    M

  6. #36
    In many cases, yes.

  7. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    So where is the fault?
    The fault was in replacing somebody productive and useful with somebody who isnt.

    Reminds me of the adage about the economist visiting China where theyre building a new Dam.
    When he asks why they are using shovels and wheel barrows instead of heavy machinery, the Chinese officials proudly tell him that this is about JOBS.
    He replies wryly that if it was about JOBS, they'd be using spoons instead of shovels.

    :-)

    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    Was this particular intern ruined by education?
    Or are women simply - gasp - useless?
    Education.?

    No, this intern was fucked by privilege which is why it fucking shits me.
    If it says on the package that it can program the shit outta yr database, then it better be able to do exactly that.

    Now it takes 2 people (one woman and one man) to do one person's (oops, I mean man's) job.

    Of course women aren't useless... unless their job is something they cannot actually perform.
    THEN, they're useless.
    Last edited by MatrixTransform; 08-13-2017 at 11:31 AM. Reason: speelcheck
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

  8. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    The fault was in replacing somebody productive and useful with somebody who isnt.

    Reminds me of the adage about the economist visiting China where theyre building a new Dam.
    When he asks why they are using shovels and wheel barrows instead of heavy machinery, the Chinese officials proudly tell him that this is about JOBS.
    He replies wryly that if it was about JOBS, they'd be using spoons instead of shovels.

    :-)



    Education.?

    No, this intern was fucked by privilege which is why it fucking shits me.
    If it says on the package that it can program the shit outta yr database, then it better be able to do exactly that.

    Now it takes 2 people (one woman and one man) to do one person's (oops, I mean man's) job.

    Of course women aren't useless... unless their job is something they cannot actually perform.
    THEN, they're useless.
    OK, so what you guys are saying is that basically, if some tech employee is a woman, you can predict that her productivity is going to be low.
    Or, on average it will be, among women. The probability of that is higher. Call it what you will.

    "Privilege" implies background, culture, education, socialization. Nurture, not nature.
    Do we have views on nature, too?

    M

  9. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    OK, so what you guys are saying is that basically, if some tech employee is a woman, you can predict that her productivity is going to be low.
    Or, on average it will be, among women. The probability of that is higher. Call it what you will.

    "Privilege" implies background, culture, education, socialization. Nurture, not nature.
    Do we have views on nature, too?
    Pah, stop putting words in my mouth. Sometimes your tits are almost visible M.

    Gawd I get sick of this arse-about gibberish.

    If they do their damned job, then there isnt a problem.

    nobody has a problem... competent woman ... awesome. Women are happy and men are happy.

    This is about incompetence and gerry-mandering the available field of competence.

    and dont lead with the 'nature' and 'we' bullshit either after you so busily drafted 'you guys'

    Speaking of nature... now hang my Range Hood you incompetent witch ... or what the fuck are you good for?
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

  10. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    Pah, stop putting words in my mouth.
    I'm not trying to "snare" you with my leftie wiles ...
    Everything that is true has a basis for being true.
    Observation and fact, or reason and logic. And some more esoteric ones that we can leave out.

    So, going by your observations, and p_d's rather sparse comment, I'm asking for the cause of this, to get to some kind of theory.
    It's a bit like doing science. Moving from 'knowing that' to 'understanding why'.

    Sometimes your tits are almost visible M.
    Yeah, yeah. Now stop wanking, put away that telescope, stop hanging arund that window, and do something useful.

    Gawd I get sick of this arse-about gibberish.
    Yes, your ellliptic style comes with a price. Everything that can be said, can be said clearly, and when you don't, you invite questions.

    If they do their damned job, then there isnt a problem.
    Obviously. But that is a conditional statement; I'm after the probability of the condition being met. If it is, or is not, I want to know why.

    nobody has a problem... competent woman ... awesome. Women are happy and men are happy.
    Probably, if you toss in some competent men, too. Won't stop the complaining, though.

    This is about incompetence and gerry-mandering the available field of competence.
    So it's the hiring practices after all?

    and dont lead with the 'nature' and 'we' bullshit either after you so busily drafted 'you guys'
    That was sheer modesty. Being an MRA is actually a title of honour, something to aspire to; at present I'm merely an MRL/MRP.
    But as an MRP, looking for explanations is what I do.
    I'm not in a tech field, strictly speaking, and I also do not work in a team or even a company, so I need to ask people who do.
    And IIRC, nature, or biology, is at the heart of the Google Memo controversy. Facts of biology must obviously be insulting to women.
    And while biology may or may not say something about women, scientists disagreeing on the science of it says a lot about science and scientists.
    So yes, it's all very interesting, and could, AFAICS, potentially have far-reaching implications.
    So there's that.

    Speaking of nature... now hang my Range Hood you incompetent witch ... or what the fuck are you good for?
    You are the only guy I know who talks with imaginary enemies.

    M

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