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Thread: The Folly of Hate and the Joy of Redemption

  1. #1
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    The Folly of Hate and the Joy of Redemption




    It's easy to denounce the hate we perceive in others. It is hard to look within and see the hate and inherent biases that we harbor in ourselves. The "right" has been an easy target for a very long time. In fact, they seem to go out of their way to say and do the stupid stuff that is so immediately recognizable. The "left", on the other hand, is more subtle and "erudite" when they go about it so it's harder to recognize and see at first, until you know where to look. Plus, many people think they are of the left and so are more readily / quickly to offer the "haters" in their group a pass when it happens. To overlook it as "mis-speaking", "mis-remembering", or "mis-stating". Of course the same happens on the right as well. Additionally, when either group likes someone, they are quick to praise them and find the good / beneficial aspects of their endeavors while overlooking their flaws and missteps. Conversely, when they don't like someone, they go out of their way to magnify every errant word, every poorly-crafted sentence, every awkward act and claim it is something evil and malignant. Both sides are guilty of this, and the venom and vitriolic rhetoric gets louder and stronger and reaches a fevered pitch. And then when you add in the purposeful manipulation of people's thoughts and reactions by various groups with particular agendas to push, it makes for an extremely volatile mix.


    The frank truth is I'm scared to death of the environment in this country right now. It is hotter and more violent than it ever has been in my memory. Certainly there have been flare-ups here and there to be sure. But right now you have great masses of people who are all seemingly pitted against one another-- while a very small few are profiting from the upheaval. We seem to be living in a time where the inmates are running the proverbial asylum. And they're all sitting around cheering as they attempt to light it all on fire to watch it burn. The demons are not simply those "on the right", nor simply those "on the left"-- but they are within all of us who cannot see that this climate of constant turmoil and strife is killing us all. It is turning neighbor against neighbor. Brother against brother. And friends against friends. Somehow people get themselves into such extreme "us versus them" mindsets that they completely lose sight of the fact that it's really all "just us".

    The problem is that hate comes in many flavors, many colors and many genders. It is easy to demonize and vilify the people we believe to be in our "out groups" and overlook entirely the fact that they-- the people we don't like-- are reacting to things too and similarly, like us, have issues and concerns that they feel are not being sufficiently addressed. Or they are feeling marginalized. Or disenfranchised. Or unfairly targeted. The truth is that most of them probably don't even harbor such extreme views as we would like to ascribe to them, but we can't admit that-- especially not in the company of the people we feel are our "in group", or else we are committing the cardinal sin of admitting that we may be, even a little bit, just like them. And everybody certainly knows that if you sympathize a little too much, or have too much empathy for the "wrong" folks, that suddenly our own "in group" peers may decide to toss *us* out of the group and declare *us* to be like *them*. So we blame them and shame them-- the people in our "in group"-- into compliance. Into submission. Into line. And make sure they're all walking the right way. Talking the right way. And thinking the right way. And anybody who is speaking differently, no matter how righteous or fundamental the truth may be-- is branded an "other" and outcast into the wilderness and left to roam and rot, or better yet, to simply fade away.

    These are the problems we face today. These are the challenges we have to overcome in order to reach out to all areas of society in order to empower and enfranchise everyone-- to wrap each other in a cloak of inclusion, instead of the petty "me-ism" which as so devastatingly swept through our nation, and seemingly throughout the whole part of the first world. Communism, is ultimately about controlling the producers. While Fascism is more about controlling the consumers. And Capitalism, after a certain threshold, is about enriching one's self at the expense of others while Socialism is about enriching others at the expense of one's self. So far there has never been a truly perfect system. And we are alive today at a historic turning point in the epic story and journey that is human civilization. We are standing at the confluence where all of these past ideologies intersect and on the brink of something new. If we can only manage to keep from killing each other long enough to get there.

    Your point about "hate" and controlling "hate" is a very good one. But it is important to see the "hate" that we all have, that we all have grown accustomed and blinded to, that we dispense casually and thoughtlessly at those who we believe are not like us. Who do not think like us. Who do not talk like us. We ascribe to them sinister motives and dastardly dispositions and imagine them to be busy plotting away to murder us all in our sleep-- thus we rationalize our behaviors to "do unto others" *before* they would do it unto us. And yet with all our sincerity and good intentions, we are still busy rationalizing-- and refusing to do the *ONE THING* that we can all easily do to mitigate and defuse the situation-- which is to simply *TALK* to each other. And with talking we need to *LISTEN* to each other so that we can *HEAR* each other-- which means NOT sitting around thinking up your next zinger while the other person is talking. And be willing to let little things go. To let bygones be bygones. To look to the futures in order to build our cities in the sky instead of digging around into our past with the intention of finding old bones to pick with each other.

    Nobody wins with the "us versus them" mentality, except for the very select few who are busy profiting on our turmoil and strife. And in who's interest it is to fan the flames and foment insurrection so they can continue to line their coffers with the product of our labors. Healing begins through finding the courage to reach out and embrace somebody different. Someone who is outside of our comfort zone. To hear new thoughts and new ideas, even if they are old thoughts restated anew-- it is in the act of listening and engaging and being willing to consider and reflect upon alternative views, alternative opinions, and respect the combined lived experiences of people who are not like ourselves, who don't live as we do-- and accept that they are not so different from us after all. And that their experiences shape their thoughts and feelings and mindsets and attitudes. They are buoyed by their dreams, and anchored by their fears-- just as we are.

    Our leaders offer us division and uncertainty. We must demand unity and peace. And we must be willing to make that peace with everyone who inhabits our society. As long as there are "the others", we are not fully listening or engaged, and thus we cannot truly be at peace.
    Last edited by mr_e; 08-15-2017 at 09:19 PM.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
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  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_e View Post
    We must demand unity and peace.
    obviously the way to do that best would be to dress in black, march en-masse, destroy public and private property and beat some people up.
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

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    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    obviously the way to do that best would be to dress in black, march en-masse, destroy public and private property and beat some people up.

    Heh. Yeah, seems to work better in some places than in others.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    My questions.

    How much of this is as described an emergence of hatred?

    How much is trying it on, dumb fuck kids and adults playing heroes and defeat the evil empire after getting bored with being permanent tax sacks in virtual poop after virtual poop, taking the politicized nonsense they've been taught and regurgitating it mindlessly in the same way they've grown up mindlessly playing games slashing pixel gloops. They perform it without thinking it's real and has consequences or they mindlessly press the lever like conditioned rats?

    How much is orchestrated and manipulative, power games played by media corps, finance giants, government and deep state, a massive divide and conquer trick on the people? So many times I'll read what is pushed as left and right pieces which state the same condemnation of financial and political corruption, and both rail against media manipulation.

    How much are we all being taken for a ride, being diverted from opposing corruption and turned against others who would also be against corruption, but are established as the ideological foe who want to force a different system that only they want on the world?

    How hard is it wind people up to a war like madness then just sell them weapons, constantly feed the anger then set up targets to attack that can be reached? I've watched the definition of alt right get ramped up again and again, the effect is only the obvious one, it increases the number of people branded evil,ergo permission and encouragement to attack. It gets blatantly obvious to me it's false when creators I've listened to or read for years and are obviously not extremists and in reality quite the opposite are label white supremacists etc. But where is protection from defamation of character when it can do some good, why is that missing?
    Last edited by voidspawn; 08-15-2017 at 10:41 PM.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
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  5. #5
    My view as is often the case is different. For fifty years, we have been bullied into a society that would never have been passed in a republic way. We were very nearly a Stalinist nation, then Trump showed he could handle the bullies. The communists are not giving up without a fight to the death. And, the left, from the time of Plato, has always felt justified in using violence and death to support their choice of a society.

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    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    My view as is often the case is different. For fifty years, we have been bullied into a society that would never have been passed in a republic way. We were very nearly a Stalinist nation, then Trump showed he could handle the bullies. The communists are not giving up without a fight to the death. And, the left, from the time of Plato, has always felt justified in using violence and death to support their choice of a society.
    I completely agree. This whole entire post was written in its entirety to someone who is so blinded to their own inherent biases and thoughtless hate towards "the others" whom they politically oppose, that they cannot fathom the idea that their *own* side-- that *they themselves*-- could be engaged in the exact same kind of inciteful rhetoric, negativity and even violence that they are condemning. What is happening in the world today is *not* one-sided. It is multi-faceted and multi-sided. And it is being orchestrated by people with hateful agendas, on multiple sides. They don't care who gets caught in the middle or what is their ultimate fate. All they care about is achieving their political objectives by any means necessary in order to assert control. It is not a democratic process. It is a totalitarian process. The only question really is, which side can muster the largest force. We are witnessing the beginnings of a civil war in our own backyard. And it is not Trump's fault. He didn't start it. Took advantage of it maybe. But really, he's just the one standing there when they lit the fuse. All this has been underway for quite a long time now.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



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  7. #7
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    . And, the left, from the time of Plato, has always felt justified in using violence and death to support their choice of a society.
    "The left from the time of Plato" ...? Do tell.
    So all the kings and tyrants of history were really communists?
    Really?

    M

  8. #8
    Eschew obfuscation, M. I said no such thing and you know it very well.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    Eschew obfuscation, M. I said no such thing and you know it very well.
    Learn some semantics. That is exactly what you said, but, like a lot of people, you're not always aware of what you are saying.

    "..the left, from the time of Plato, ..." posits the existence of a "left" since the ancient Greeks, although the political use of "left" and "right" arose during the French revolution, pretty close to 2000 years later. And the use of "left" for socialists and communists came even later than that, because that movement was in its embryo stage at that time.

    Historically, the powers that be, from the time of Plato, have always felt justified in using violence and death to support their choice of a society.
    And the powers that be would be knights and nobles, lords and lord.bishops, cardinals and kings, popes and emperors.
    Not "the left".

    So yes, since Plato there have been lots of people who have felt justified in using violence and death to support their choice of a society, but no, they were not "the left".
    There were no "left" governments before the 20th Century, unless you count the days of the Paris Commune.

    Of course, then there were some, and some of them immediately busied themselves catching up with the old reactionary regimes wrt. bloodletting.
    So there is enough blame, if you want to spread some, in the mere, bare naked truth.
    Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth. Truth.
    And facts.
    And truth.

    M

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