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  1. #1

    Charlottesville

    Few days have gone by this insident, and nobody in this forums have commented, so I guess it is my duty...

    I can immagine that if the drive of the trucks was named Abdu... or was he imigrant, it would be all over the forums... but what do I know...

    So here the actuall state of the situation, as is:

    "Trump again blames Charlottesville violence on both sides"
    http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-40943425

    So... for some reason Trump have also refuse to denounce the perpetrators of the violence... and the best he have done so far is to say that both sides are equally violent.// but are they?

    This is not coming from any mainstream media, this is the narrative of a local, and how he perceived the events that day... He is a jew and he was at his synagogue for the Saturday service:

    http://reformjudaism.org/blog/2017/0...munity-presses

    ...

    On Saturday morning, I stood outside our synagogue with the armed security guard we hired after the police department refused to provide us with an officer during morning services. (Even the police department’s limited promise of an observer near our building was not kept — and note, we did not ask for protection of our property, only our people as they worshipped).

    Forty congregants were inside. Here’s what I witnessed during that time.

    For half an hour, three men dressed in fatigues and armed with semi-automatic rifles stood across the street from the temple. Had they tried to enter, I don’t know what I could have done to stop them, but I couldn’t take my eyes off them, either. Perhaps the presence of our armed guard deterred them. Perhaps their presence was just a coincidence, and I’m paranoid. I don’t know.

    Several times, parades of Nazis passed our building, shouting, “There's the synagogue!” followed by chants of “Seig Heil” and other anti-Semitic language. Some carried flags with swastikas and other Nazi symbols.

    A guy in a white polo shirt walked by the synagogue a few times, arousing suspicion. Was he casing the building, or trying to build up courage to commit a crime? We didn’t know. Later, I noticed that the man accused in the automobile terror attack wore the same polo shirt as the man who kept walking by our synagogue; apparently it’s the uniform of a white supremacist group. Even now, that gives me a chill.

    When services ended, my heart broke as I advised congregants that it would be safer to leave the temple through the back entrance rather than through the front, and to please go in groups.

    This is 2017 in the United States of America.

    Later that day, I arrived on the scene shortly after the car plowed into peaceful protesters. It was a horrific and bloody scene.

    Soon, we learned that Nazi websites had posted a call to burn our synagogue. I sat with one of our rabbis and wondered whether we should go back to the temple to protect the building. What could I do if I were there? Fortunately, it was just talk – but we had already deemed such an attack within the realm of possibilities, taking the precautionary step of removing our Torahs, including a Holocaust scroll, from the premises.

    ...
    So...

    Equally violent?

    Leftie media lies?

  2. #2
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleman View Post
    So...

    Equally violent?

    Leftie media lies?
    Well I've been waiting to see if any more news emergences on this on the forum, because this forum is useful as it makes stories available that are filtered out by the British news.

    When groups are both violent it's escalating violence, which means it stays equal for a very short time. Equally to blame would be a better phrase.

    This forum is open to any to join but the people here by far are supporters of human rights, and concerned about the issues of male human rights being eroded. It's not a bastion of support for everything right wing, and is most definitely not here to support any form of racism or bigotry targeting any group at all. You'll get nothing here but complete condemnation for the attack that killed the woman in Charlottesville and injured the others, that's a criminal / terrorist act that proves a much stronger response from the police is needed to keep both sides apart, and pretty far apart. And the police need to react to remove violence from these protests. I don't recall there being any right to violently and destructively protest.

    That said, let's look at the obvious you select out one story and ignore the bike lock attacks, shooting, Antifa beating independent journos, BLM's using aerosols as makeshift flamethrowers, then report the violence and threat from the far right extremists... That's not proving unequally violent but is showing lying by omission.

    Your selection, tells of man or group feeling threatened by the presence, shouts and online posts from Nazi websites. But no where does he report a violent attack on the synagogue. He's reacting to the climate of fear growing around him, to be honest if I was there I'd be with him, scurrying out of the back, and I'd prefer to be with people in the synagogue than out on the streets, I have strong preference for the company of law abiding people.

    No one has ever denied the presence and the problem of far right extremists, just that it's a lie to conflate all of the right with them. And the problem from a human rights perspective is once all are tarred with the same brush de-escalation of division and violence gets hard, and policing can turn from legitimate law enforcement to state oppression. It's a tactic done across the media to silence the complaints coming from the 'right'. And let's not ignore that a lot of the complaints getting lumped together and silenced have nothing to do with right / left alignments on policy at all. They are about jobs, housing, poverty, opportunity and yes men's rights, a whole spectrum of complaints in bygone years I'd have expected the left to be standing up for. The whole reason I've drifted from my left wing background is the utter refusal to stand up for issues affecting the poorer end of society and problems of social decay... because they don't give a toss when it's harming groups they've put as others, which especially is men, and working class white men, once the backbone of the left are now excluded from any support.

    To the best of my knowledge the videos I've watched and articles I've read have been pretty specific about which far left they are complaining about, they have never called Democrats or Greens etc violent extremists nor attempted to conflate them with BLM or Antifa. And by far they've tried to point to individuals responsible for crimes that should be arrested. Do they skip talking about the far right extremists, well they don't do specific articles, but they don't hold back on condemnation of far right violence, threats and intimidation tactics.

    Your text only demonstrates that jewish people still feel very much under threat and there are still people who want to target them. That is an ongoing problem, and it's getting to be a larger problem the more tensions rise. The tensions and anger are the exact atmosphere that encourages extremists to come out of their coward holes mix in with the crowds and start doing acts of terrorism. They do it because they want to get away with it. Get away with violence in the same way and for the same reason Antifa blocks cover their faces and all try to dress the same.

    If you ask me simpleman, this isn't the time to be making silly points about Trump or snide swipes at the character of the people on this forum. All of this situation growing out of control stems from corrupt use of state power, police not doing their jobs, politicians telling them to stand down, extremist tactics mixing in with what should be political debate.

    The demand that needs to go up should be from the still too silent majority, demanding that all sides be kept within laws that are fair and just. If partisan sides want to burst their lungs yelling insults at each other, that might be within their rights, but not killing each other nor trashing towns.
    Last edited by voidspawn; 08-16-2017 at 12:57 PM.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    Well I've been waiting to see if any more news emergences on this on the forum, because this forum is useful as it makes stories available that are filtered out by the British news.

    When groups are both violent it's escalating violence, which means it stays equal for a very short time. Equally to blame would be a better phrase.
    Very reasonable point... so.. How many nazis in the hospital? how many nazis dead?

    Equally violent???

    This forum is open to any to join but the people here by far are supporters of human rights, and concerned about the issues of male human rights being eroded. It's not a bastion of support for everything right wing, and is most definitely not here to support any form of racism or bigotry targeting any group at all. You'll get nothing here but complete condemnation for the attack that killed the woman in Charlottesville and injured the others, that's a criminal / terrorist act that proves a much stronger response from the police is needed to keep both sides apart, and pretty far apart. And the police need to react to remove violence from these protests. I don't recall there being any right to violently and destructively protest.
    Sadly to say so, but i think the forum drastically polarized in the political spectrum, on the times of the Trump campaign... and I think it stays this way.

    I don't really know much of the "alt-right"... It is something that came with Trump campaign as well... Trump is a national socialist, so it can't be that much of a right wing movement... So we will see.

    That said, let's look at the obvious you select out one story and ignore the bike lock attacks, shooting, Antifa beating independent journos, BLM's using aerosols as makeshift flamethrowers, then report the violence and threat from the far right extremists... That's not proving unequally violent but is showing lying by omission.
    I ignored pretty much the whole first link... i pointed out the title, as representative of Trump's situation... but then again... how many nazis in the hospital?

    Your selection, tells of man or group feeling threatened by the presence, shouts and online posts from Nazi websites. But no where does he report a violent attack on the synagogue. He's reacting to the climate of fear growing around him, to be honest if I was there I'd be with him, scurrying out of the back, and I'd prefer to be with people in the synagogue than out on the streets, I have strong preference for the company of law abiding people.
    Serves to remind what are the ideals and values of the nazi, the KKK and all those hate groups... They are no standing up for anything good or positive... So mowing down people with a car, is like the cherry on top of the cake... but car or no car it is important to remember what is in the mind of them.

    No one has ever denied the presence and the problem of far right extremists, just that it's a lie to conflate all of the right with them. And the problem from a human rights perspective is once all are tarred with the same brush de-escalation of division and violence gets hard, and policing can turn from legitimate law enforcement to state oppression. It's a tactic done across the media to silence the complaints coming from the 'right'. And let's not ignore that a lot of the complaints getting lumped together and silenced have nothing to do with right / left alignments on policy at all. They are about jobs, housing, poverty, opportunity and yes men's rights, a whole spectrum of complaints in bygone years I'd have expected the left to be standing up for. The whole reason I've drifted from my left wing background is the utter refusal to stand up for issues affecting the poorer end of society and problems of social decay... because they don't give a toss when it's harming groups they've put as others, which especially is men, and working class white men, once the backbone of the left are now excluded from any support.
    True... I am personally no linking the people with conservative ideals to any of this movements... So much that lines above I declare that National Socialism is a leftie movement... Hitler has a national Socialist... as Hugo Chavez was one too... as Trump is.

    My "indignation" comes from the failure of Trump to properly denounce the violence... see? people like the neo-nazis and the KK, think that they won the White House alongside with Trump, so they might fell more comfortable to act their values now that they claim they "won the country back"... Trump's silence is a confirmation for them.

    Want to talk about escalation of violence? then lest talk about a hate group that runs rampants with the blessing of the president...

    To the best of my knowledge the videos I've watched and articles I've read have been pretty specific about which far left they are complaining about, they have never called Democrats or Greens etc violent extremists nor attempted to conflate them with BLM or Antifa. And by far they've tried to point to individuals responsible for crimes that should be arrested. Do they skip talking about the far right extremists, well they don't do specific articles, but they don't hold back on condemnation of far right violence, threats and intimidation tactics.
    The articles I have read do name the neo nazis, and the KKK... even the article I link mention them by name... but at this point I am going to reverse this point of yours... It is not the job of the left to separate a nazi form a republican, it is basically the job of the republicans to separate themselves from the nazis... Many republicans are doing this right now, they too question Trump the same as I am doing... Trump separate himself from the nazis or the republicans will separa themselves from Trump...

    Your text only demonstrates that jewish people still feel very much under threat and there are still people who want to target them. That is an ongoing problem, and it's getting to be a larger problem the more tensions rise. The tensions and anger are the exact atmosphere that encourages extremists to come out of their coward holes mix in with the crowds and start doing acts of terrorism. They do it because they want to get away with it. Get away with violence in the same way and for the same reason Antifa blocks cover their faces and all try to dress the same.
    Bigger problem than what you think... after this events it is like 90% likely that building burn down, there is the nazis that want to bur it down and then all the people that hate nazies and want then to be blame of another crime... One way or another that jewish community is now a big target.

    If you ask me simpleman, this isn't the time to be making silly points about Trump or snide swipes at the character of the people on this forum. All of this situation growing out of control stems from corrupt use of state power, police not doing their jobs, politicians telling them to stand down, extremist tactics mixing in with what should be political debate.

    The demand that needs to go up should be from the still too silent majority, demanding that all sides be kept within laws that are fair and just. If partisan sides want to burst their lungs yelling insults at each other, that might be within their rights, but not killing each other nor trashing towns.
    I don't think the point is silly... Trump is showing his morals, and stuff is turning to be "the worse case scenario"... so now what? After all this debates... it turns out that he really is a racist?

  4. #4
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Alt-Right Activists Condemn Violence, Dispute Mainstream Account
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    Well I've been waiting to see if any more news emergences on this on the forum, because this forum is useful as it makes stories available that are filtered out by the British news.

    When groups are both violent it's escalating violence, which means it stays equal for a very short time. Equally to blame would be a better phrase.

    This forum is open to any to join but the people here by far are supporters of human rights, and concerned about the issues of male human rights being eroded. It's not a bastion of support for everything right wing, and is most definitely not here to support any form of racism or bigotry targeting any group at all. You'll get nothing here but complete condemnation for the attack that killed the woman in Charlottesville and injured the others, that's a criminal / terrorist act that proves a much stronger response from the police is needed to keep both sides apart, and pretty far apart. And the police need to react to remove violence from these protests. I don't recall there being any right to violently and destructively protest.

    That said, let's look at the obvious you select out one story and ignore the bike lock attacks, shooting, Antifa beating independent journos, BLM's using aerosols as makeshift flamethrowers, then report the violence and threat from the far right extremists... That's not proving unequally violent but is showing lying by omission.

    Your selection, tells of man or group feeling threatened by the presence, shouts and online posts from Nazi websites. But no where does he report a violent attack on the synagogue. He's reacting to the climate of fear growing around him, to be honest if I was there I'd be with him, scurrying out of the back, and I'd prefer to be with people in the synagogue than out on the streets, I have strong preference for the company of law abiding people.

    No one has ever denied the presence and the problem of far right extremists, just that it's a lie to conflate all of the right with them. And the problem from a human rights perspective is once all are tarred with the same brush de-escalation of division and violence gets hard, and policing can turn from legitimate law enforcement to state oppression. It's a tactic done across the media to silence the complaints coming from the 'right'. And let's not ignore that a lot of the complaints getting lumped together and silenced have nothing to do with right / left alignments on policy at all. They are about jobs, housing, poverty, opportunity and yes men's rights, a whole spectrum of complaints in bygone years I'd have expected the left to be standing up for. The whole reason I've drifted from my left wing background is the utter refusal to stand up for issues affecting the poorer end of society and problems of social decay... because they don't give a toss when it's harming groups they've put as others, which especially is men, and working class white men, once the backbone of the left are now excluded from any support.

    To the best of my knowledge the videos I've watched and articles I've read have been pretty specific about which far left they are complaining about, they have never called Democrats or Greens etc violent extremists nor attempted to conflate them with BLM or Antifa. And by far they've tried to point to individuals responsible for crimes that should be arrested. Do they skip talking about the far right extremists, well they don't do specific articles, but they don't hold back on condemnation of far right violence, threats and intimidation tactics.

    Your text only demonstrates that jewish people still feel very much under threat and there are still people who want to target them. That is an ongoing problem, and it's getting to be a larger problem the more tensions rise. The tensions and anger are the exact atmosphere that encourages extremists to come out of their coward holes mix in with the crowds and start doing acts of terrorism. They do it because they want to get away with it. Get away with violence in the same way and for the same reason Antifa blocks cover their faces and all try to dress the same.

    If you ask me simpleman, this isn't the time to be making silly points about Trump or snide swipes at the character of the people on this forum. All of this situation growing out of control stems from corrupt use of state power, police not doing their jobs, politicians telling them to stand down, extremist tactics mixing in with what should be political debate.

    The demand that needs to go up should be from the still too silent majority, demanding that all sides be kept within laws that are fair and just. If partisan sides want to burst their lungs yelling insults at each other, that might be within their rights, but not killing each other nor trashing towns.

    I agree very much with what you said.

    And I will add that there are a number of alternative viewpoints to the situation that the mainstream media are refusing to consider-- *consider*-- as in even bother to tell you could be *possibilities*. They are so entrenched in slanting it into a one-sided conflict. I am presenting this link not as "the truth", but as an alternate explanation for the events presented from another viewpoint. I fully expect that there are details, recollections, and even outright biases and projections contained within-- but it is as "valid" as the perspective presented by the mainstream media-- meaning, it is simply more of the story for the viewer to see, read, absorb and try to incorporate as he/she tries to make an UNBIASED EFFORT to actually UNDERSTAND what happened-- and what IS happening in our nation right now.

    Alt-Right Activists Condemn Violence, Dispute Mainstream Account
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...tream-account/

    And there are lots of different video feeds to view from different angles and perspectives. Pick one, pick many-- they show a different version of the truth.

    YouTube Videos: "Charlottesville Car Video"
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ille+car+video
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by mr_e View Post
    Alt-Right Activists Condemn Violence, Dispute Mainstream Account


    I agree very much with what you said.

    And I will add that there are a number of alternative viewpoints to the situation that the mainstream media are refusing to consider-- *consider*-- as in even bother to tell you could be *possibilities*. They are so entrenched in slanting it into a one-sided conflict. I am presenting this link not as "the truth", but as an alternate explanation for the events presented from another viewpoint. I fully expect that there are details, recollections, and even outright biases and projections contained within-- but it is as "valid" as the perspective presented by the mainstream media-- meaning, it is simply more of the story for the viewer to see, read, absorb and try to incorporate as he/she tries to make an UNBIASED EFFORT to actually UNDERSTAND what happened-- and what IS happening in our nation right now.

    Alt-Right Activists Condemn Violence, Dispute Mainstream Account
    http://www.breitbart.com/big-governm...tream-account/

    And there are lots of different video feeds to view from different angles and perspectives. Pick one, pick many-- they show a different version of the truth.

    YouTube Videos: "Charlottesville Car Video"
    https://www.youtube.com/results?sear...ille+car+video
    This is not the first time extreme left and extreme right clash in the streets...

    However in this case, you can't really say the level of violence was equal.. just by the head count of dead and injured in both sides...

    This prayer is going around jewish communities:

    http://tobendlight.com/2017/08/we-will-not-yield/

    After violence from white supremacists left death and injury in Charlottesville, here’s a prayer and a call to action for all who love this nation.

    We Will Not Yield
    Today,
    I am neither Democrat nor Republican,
    Neither left nor right nor center.
    I am an American,
    Born to a legacy of truth and justice,
    Born to a legacy of freedom and equality.

    Today, I am a patriot
    Who will not yield this nation to hate.
    Not to neo-Nazis.
    Not to thugs self-styled as militia.
    Not to slogans or chants.
    Not to gestures or flags.
    Not to threats and not to violence.

    Hate is hate,
    Ugly and brutal,
    And we will not yield.

    Today,
    I am Christian, Muslim and Jew,
    Catholic, Buddist, Hindu and Sikh,
    Atheist and agnostic.
    I am Asian, Latino, Hispanic, African American,
    White, Native American and multi-racial.
    I am an immigrant, a child of the American Revolution,
    A veteran and a soldier.
    I work in the dark depth of the mines
    And the high towers of Wall Street,
    In the factories and the farms,
    In our hospitals and strip malls.
    I am gay, lesbian, straight, bi, trans,
    Man, woman and gender-neutral.
    I am young, old, blind and deaf,
    Hearing and sighted,
    Disabled,
    Powerful and unafraid.

    Truth is truth,
    That all are created equal,
    And we will not yield.

    Today, I am an American,
    A citizen of the United States,
    A child of this great democracy,
    A child of this wise republic,
    Dedicated to liberty,
    Dedicated to action.

    We will not yield.

  6. #6
    I seen a report in Canada said it was alt right white supramists and anti feminists

    typical

    who's to blame........why the ppl you hate of course
    A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

  7. #7
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    This is the statement anti Trump, leftists and mainstream media are condemning him for?

    This makes him a racist?
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post


    This is the statement anti Trump, leftists and mainstream media are condemning him for?

    This makes him a racist?
    Didn't call the violent by name in that video, no a single time he say a word about the KKK or the neo-nazis... what is your point?

  9. #9
    Anybody's who's been paying attention knows that The Leftards/Antifarts have been using strongarm violent tactics for a while now. Watch the smashup video in slow motion and count how many of them have baseball bats/clubs/heavy sticks. There was bound to be a clash sooner or later, and there will be more, no doubt. The country is extremely divided; are these the first shots of a civil war? Trump commands a significant army of 25% of Americans, firmly in his corner, "to the end" as they say....that's scary, considering that they are probably the most well-armed of Americans.

    About 1 in 4 Americans would follow Trump to the end

    If the Deep State/Swamp/Washington Establishment/Pedophiles do force out Trump, he has enough support to lead his side of a Civil War, should he decide to. Their only option is to kill him. Fascinating times!
    Last edited by oldblueeyes; 08-16-2017 at 03:23 PM.
    Men stay single and your pockets will jingle!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by oldblueeyes View Post
    If the Deep State/Swamp/Washington Establishment/Pedophiles do force out Trump...
    You are sick.

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