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Thread: Freedom of Speech in the USA today

  1. #21
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    Points taken. All probably true.

    my reasoning isnt about hiding my identity because the truth is that if you could be truly anonymous, then well, you prolly would be allowed to even use the net.

    Nah, Im all about interrupting the cash-flow for Googles and any other leech in-between.

    I dont want tailored ads that privilege the highest ad revenue for Gulag....when a supplier is like 4000km away. FFS

    When I visit a news site I dont even want to see the ads in the side bars. ever.

    I dont want their nasty little scripts running that refer you around a dozen different servers.

    Dont like the cookies that enable them to bullshit about hotel availability ...OMG only one room left (yeah right, fuck off)

    Besides, I want ruin the metrics the Financialisation Wizards use to broker with that create extra cost for everybody while they skim.

    I want to be absolutely useless to them

    I am not their cash-crop

    They want something from me, be it demographic data or pointed sales ...they can find another way.

    Fuck em

    I didn't particularly have a problem with it until they decided that they wanted to pick sides. The moment they did that-- they are fucking scum.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
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  2. #22
    nah we're fucking scum. dont you know?
    here's a reminder:


    Quote Originally Posted by MatrixTransform View Post
    where were you before you put yourself last?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarrator View Post
    Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

  3. #23
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleman View Post
    I don't agree...

    The owner of the website is the owner of the website... The fact that a website becomes successful does not means that the government can now seize it.

    You really want to create a public online space?

    Create a non for profit, to pay the bills, then code the software and release it as open source code...

    That is what Wikipedia, and wordpress have done.

    There is always this debate about google and facebook... I have not seeing mentions of wikipedia and wordpress... I guess because there is no problems with the freedom of speech in those websites?

    Wikipedia is already open-- they have a steering committee, which you could *very easily* argue is prejudiced (and I don't disagree in the slightest) but at least the basis of their model is free and open.

    Wikipedia: History of Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Wikipedia

    Wikipedia: Criticism of Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_Wikipedia

    Wordpress I don't have enough experience with to comment on. I know what their software is of course, but I don't use it.


    As for the rest, there absolutely is an argument to be made. And a very, very good one. And it isn't because *I* think so and want it-- it's because of the way that *THEY* positioned themselves in the market, along with the assumptions and expectations they fostered and engendered in their users that what they were free to say, do and think, was free and open. The fact that they have *ALSO* become the de-facto go-to marketplace for the exchange of ideas, social expression, interaction between people in the digital era-- is interesting, but isn't really the strongest part of the argument-- *UNTIL* it is coupled with the point that they themselves have fostered and promoted themselves in this manner. For them to turn around *NOW* and start censoring groups and opinions they don't like and don't agree with-- is in DIRECT VIOLATION of the TELECOMMUNICATIONS LAW that they *MUST* adhere to in the United States. There are three modes of operation set forth under the law-- we've discussed this before-- "Common Carrier", "Publisher", "Editor". Each mode has certain criteria, meaning and obligations they must adhere to in order to be compliant with that particular mode. The *LEAST* onerous, to *THEM* would be "Public Carrier" mode. They all want to claim "Public Carrier" status precisely *BECAUSE* it offers them the least liability for the content which is disseminated across their site and emanates from it. However, one of the number one stipulations of "Carrier Mode", *UNDER THE LAW*, is that YOU CAN'T FUCK WITH IT. You police it for *ILLEGAL CONTENT*, meaning content, communication, and modes of communication which are expressly forbidden under the *LAW* and *NOTHING ELSE*-- no further. The *NEXT STEP YOU TAKE* concerning content and communication tosses you over into one of the other buckets, either "Publisher" or "Editor", who are each increasingly liable for the CONTENT that is displayed on the site, throughout the site, and emanates from the site. Along with the LEGAL and CRIMINAL LIABILITY which can arise from CENSORSHIP (as it is legally defined), SLANDER, DEFAMATION, and other similarly tortious offences.

    Wikipedia: Telecommunications Act of 1996
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teleco...ns_Act_of_1996

    (This has been extended and superseded a bit in the intervening years-- but the fundamental tenets of the act are still in effect and are the underlying governing principles of all online and electronic telecommunications markets. There is another area of law which governs traditional "Publishing" (along with Broadcasting, Editing, etc) which I am not as familiar with. My own knowledge and interest stems from my involvement in the industry during the early 1990's and onward as required by the operation of the Internet Service Provider company I founded.)

    TL;DR-- Facebook, YouTube, (et al) have made this possible and brought it all upon themselves because they couldn't keep their grubby paws out of the cookie jar. They had (and probably still have) the opportunity to play it straight and decided that they would rather instead play both sides against the middle. And they have run right up against *EXISTING LAW* which says they cannot, and provides QUITE CLEAR guidance for what should happen. Anybody who wonders how much tooth such a law could have, or what the ultimate effect of it's application could be, should ask Judge Harold Greene (who is now unfortunately deceased) and AT&T-- (er, the *OLD* AT&T that is, aka "Ma Bell"-- hint, they don't exist anymore either-- it ended up getting eaten alive by it's own children) what the law means to them. Perhaps you might be interested in any case, it's a fascinating subject and a fascinating read / area of law.

    Wikipedia: Judge Harold H Greene
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_H._Greene

    Wikipedia: AT&T Breakup
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breaku...he_Bell_System


    Another very interesting area of law, and one that could be held in the back pocket as a ready standby in case all of the preceding didn't work out-- is the law of Eminent Domain, which I personally think is about as *UN-AMERICAN* (un-civil / un-friendly) AS HELL, but I wouldn't mind *A BIT* (nor would lose a wink of sleep, nor shed a single tear over) to see it used to take some of these gigantic feckless "too-big-to-regulate" corporations down a peg or ten. I think you could easily make a hell of an argument that Facebook, Google, YouTube (and some others) would serve the public much better if they were taken over by the State and made into (literally) "Public Corporations" for the benefit of every citizen of the United States, the promotion of Free Speech and Free Expression (according to the law, of course)-- and the creation (promotion by government decree) of same into digital representations of the "Public Street".

    You can cry "Fascism" / "Communism" / "Socialism" / or whatever other -ism you want, all you want. (And deep down, I actually agree). But these particular companies have done it to themselves through their own egregious behavior. All they had to do was LEAVE IT THE FUCK ALONE and they would have been fine. That's it. The *ONE THING* they weren't supposed to do-- they DID and now it needs to come back and TEAR THEIR ASSES APART.

    Microsoft *ALMOST* got themselves ripped apart that way-- and if you ask me, they should have. There must have been a ton of collusion and dirty-dealing going on in there someplace for Gates and Company to get off so lightly-- practically scott-free. And of course it has worked out well for Microsoft as well, as almost directly afterwards, pretty much every government agency in the United States converged on Microsoft and Microsoft products as their ONE AND ONLY (for as much as it matters) solution to IT. There are still certainly other players of course-- but so much of the Hardware / Software stack-- and the diversity of players involved in that stack (Sun Microsystems being one of particular note) got SQUASHED and basically *MUSHED* out of existence (that's a technical term ;-) Linux was able to maintain a toe-hold. And in its own right has managed a bit of a coup / comeback. And my eyes are still watching it carefully. Linux may yet be the dark horse that is able to best Microsoft at its own game. At the moment, they are busy going at it neck and neck, by proxy. And Microsoft is doing its best to "Embrace, Extend and Extinguish" Linux as it tries to incorporate it into its own OS as a plug-in / Co-OS-- however that's going to work out (shrug). And Google is busy making a play of its own with the introduction of a new Operating System which they plan to replace Android with. We'll see where/how that goes and whether Google has the mojo to yank the server market away from Microsoft. They are one of the few players who has enough muscle / placement in the game, while yet still being essentially an "outsider" to the market, who might be able to pull it off. (Shrug) We'll see.

    Wikipedia: Eminent Domain
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eminent_domain

    Wikipedia: United States v. Microsoft Case
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United...icrosoft_Corp.

    "On April 3, 2000, a judgment was handed down in the case of United States v. Microsoft,[61] calling the company an "abusive monopoly"[62] and forcing the company to split into two separate units."

    Wikipedia: Embrace, Extend and Extinguish
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrac...and_extinguish

    ""Embrace, extend, and extinguish",[1] also known as "Embrace, extend, and exterminate",[2] is a phrase that the U.S. Department of Justice found[3] was used internally by Microsoft[4] to describe its strategy for entering product categories involving widely used standards, extending those standards with proprietary capabilities, and then using those differences to disadvantage its competitors."
    Last edited by mr_e; 08-20-2017 at 04:37 AM.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
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  4. #24
    Senior Member mr_e's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleman View Post
    You will no find this.

    First of all the equipment that does the networking at that scale, for instance CISCO routers, do the marking and save it inside their listings... so in reality this small local servers providers will have the options to get the equipment they need to run their service, and build the listings... or run their service on Linksys, LOL.

    (blah blah blah)

    FCC fines Verizon $1.35 million over 'supercookie' tracking
    https://www.theverge.com/2016/3/7/11...-3-million-fcc

    A short guide to supercookies: whether you’re being tracked and how to opt out
    https://qz.com/634294/a-short-guide-...ow-to-opt-out/





    Moreover, if that weren't enough-- Verizon (et al) could have *EASILY* done this using any of a variety of methods-- INCLUDING with the use of Cisco Routers and Switches (using their "TrustSEC" facility for one, or via "OpenFlow" / "ONF" extensions for another). Not to mention that there is no requirement that Cisco products even be used to accomplish this-- there are certainly plenty of other vendors out there and devices which can be utilized to facilitate this type of feature. In fact, any reasonably modern firewall software could be hacked-up to do it easily. I'm sure there are all sorts of in-house software tools which can provide the functionality as well. It's not a particularly hard concept nor one that's difficult to implement-- particularly when you have the potential for literally MILLIONS in revenue riding on it. Don't forget we're talking about the SAME PEOPLE who are busy streaming your every packet, your every email, your every comment, your every phone conversation to a convenient collection point for the NSA and friends to pick up and dissect. And you don't think they could add a tracking cookie while they're at it!?!?!"


    Cisco: TrustSec (aka: Security Group Tagging)
    https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/doc...arch_over.html

    OpenFlow
    http://archive.openflow.org/wp/learnmore/

    (This particular page is obsolete but useful for a quick overview, see link below for more up-to-date info)

    Open Networking Foundation - Overview
    https://www.opennetworking.org/softw...ards/overview/
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.



    The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men

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  5. #25
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

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