Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
I don't see it as being about what the good folks do, most people know full well how to get along. Men and women know how to get along have done for 100's of k's years. People also know that they need to various levels keep bad behaviour in check. This is where the dividing line is I think, good men keep bad men in check and more so they do it through a system of justice which is in both parts respectful of a person's freedom to be an arsehole and need to protect the innocent. However good women don't keep bad women in check, they expect men to do it then disable them from having the approaches and support to do it. Men on threat of jail time and social destruction have to step back when a woman behaves appallingly, and the number of good women stepping forward to deal with bad behaviour is way too few to deal with the problem.

I'm not talking about bad behaviour like insulting, rowdiness, drunken anti-social behaviour, though women get a clear message they can get away with that, most men with sense step back let that woman self destruct. Where men can protect themselves and others by pulling back they will and won't complain about it. Personal responsibility is something men learn. But when the behaviour is false accusations, parental alienation, lying and manipulation and the motives are greed and vindictiveness and males are stripped from using the law, evidence is ignored and blocked, and their voice gets dismissed as microaggressions, mansplaining and verbal assault, good women need to step up. It's called fairness, they want a society where women are safe from men so they've pushed the system to ban men from even defending themselves. In that case the fair thing for women to do is either you step up and defend them or change the rules to fair ones where people get equal say and can defend themselves. If not that then society needs to fall apart fully, good men would be better off without it and ultimately so would good women.

I don't disagree with you. And we should definitely continue to have a wing of our MHRM organization which continues to point out and hammer home these truths. But the point that I was hoping to make here, admittedly somewhat by way of inverted example, is to consider how Feminism makes us (as in, goes out of its way and works to make us) feel. And then they claim they want us to be Feminists too-- of course they do. That just makes their job of indoctrination and take-over that much easier. Even though there isn't a sane person on the planet who could rationally and with a straight face, assert that Feminism has anything good in it for men at all. Ironically-- (and thankfully)-- part of what makes Feminism so unpalatable for men is the "Feminism" part, not to mention the generally repulsive aspect of the Feminists themselves.

But if we are being honest and truthful with ourselves, we should consider the message that we, in the MHRM, are inadvertently sending to women (and men) as we confront, battle, and pick apart the hateful Feminist narrative and its mountain of insidious lies. There is of course the *TRUTH* aspect of our message-- and that isn't nothing. But many of our audience are (self-designated) "Feminists", of the "Ordinary Woman" / "Feminist-Lite" variety who don't particularly agree (or are even much aware) with the full-on radical Feminist doctrine and ideology. And yet as we take on the Feminists and blast them head-on with truth bombs and antiseptic sunshine, these other "Feminist-Lite" women are kind of the moral casualties of the exchange. Additionally-- and of no direct fault of our own-- is the "stigma" that "Men's Rights" / "MRA's" / "Anti-Feminism" and the rest has accumulated in the mainstream media, and throughout the mainstream society which follows (and swallows) all of the malignant effluvium they produce. So if you are one of those off-to-the-sides "Feminist-Lite" sort of women (or men) you can imagine the sort of message that *THEY* believe they are being besieged with from us-- whether rightfully as we actually take on (and take down) the Feminist lies and myths-- and indirectly as a result of the misinformation and slander campaigns by the Feminist and the mainstream media cronies.

So my thinking is that if you are one of those "Feminist-Lite" women (or men) who isn't really hard-core but just going through the motions since those seem to be the motions-- what does the MHRM have in it for you? If all we say is "Equality", that's of course true, but it's also the same thing that the Feminists have been selling them all along. And if they have TWO versions of equality to pick, one that seems to GIVE THEM STUFF even though it might seem a little smarmy at times, versus the other which is telling them what they know in their hearts has got to be true (but they just don't want to admit it to themselves, or out loud)-- and they don't even get a cookie for following along... where is the incentive for them to switch? Seeing as how not everybody is imbued with moral character or personal integrity...

So I think we need to figure out a way to make "Truth" and "Righteousness" more palatable alternatives. If we can't change what they *mean* or provide, maybe at the very least we can sex them up a bit and make them more fun to adhere to. Give 'em a pat on the back and some good ole social recognition when they do it. You know, feed them what they're *really* hungry for-- what they've always been hungry for-- and what it is that Feminism (or the Lite version of it) has always been claiming to do for them-- recognition. A pat on the head and telling them that they're special and that they matter. We don't have to be so obvious about it that we think *everybody* is special and *everybody* matters... right? They can figure that out later for themselves when they open the package and smell the bouquet. Everybody wants to be on the "winning team" and that's one of the reasons why Feminism is so appealing to them. It gives them stuff and they get to think to themselves that they're morally justified in their beliefs and their attitudes about (and passive dismissal of) men. And what are we doing to counter that? Nothing really, IMO. Simply laying it on harder and thicker and making it harder for them to allow themselves to hear our message, because in the process, it requires them to admit to themselves that they were at least a little bit complicit in its propager, if not personally more culpable in its origin.

Nobody (I think) *wants* to be a bigot. And what is Feminism if not bigotry taken to a rarefied extreme?

So we, in the MHRM, have the stick. And we've been using it to "Fuck Their Shit Up" (FTSU) for some time now. We also need to have a softer side. A gentler side. One that appeals more to their basic nature and gives them the ego strokes they're so desperate for, and helps them and encourages them to *want* to be on the *righteous* side, the *moral* side-- and the ethical side. Instead of just being on the side that gives them free stuff. One of the ways that Feminism works its insidious magic is that it immediately entitles the beholder as a member of the club-- if she's *female* that is. And what better enticement than "free stuff" plus membership in an exclusive club could there be for weak ethically-challenged narcissistic minds? M was right really when he said it boils down to marketing. We need to figure out how to make it "cool" to be for Men and their issues-- give ourselves a face and a voice, apart from Paul Elam and A Voice For Men. I am not knocking either one-- please don't hear me saying that. I simply mean that we need to give the MHRM a "sexier" look that women can feel more comfortable in identifying with. One that shows them in a positive light AND gives them the extra added advantage of being on the side of truth. Figure out a way to give them the MHRM version of the "Members-Only" jacket...