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Thread: Sir Cliff Richard says he will 'never recover' from false sex abuse claims

  1. #11
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarrator View Post
    i would rather see these men get something.
    the government giving them money = im not holding my breath

    also.. if i create a foundation to do this..i can give money anywhere in the world. so thats a huge bonus



    also..i bolded a portion of your post.
    this is simply impossible. the damage done is not something you can compensate for or reverse
    Agreed a foundation of course is free to do it as it likes, governments it's each jurisdiction to deal with (though if the USA does something the other Anglosphere muppets tend to copy it.)

    The most important phrase is: it should have a responsibility.

    It did the breaking, it harmed an innocent person, it has a responsibility. That is important for 2 reasons, firstly the obvious to ameliorate the harm done to a person (the means I agree will never be ideal), secondly so that it has clear pressure not to pursue a form of tyranny, which it will, the situation at the moment is government will screw you over - your only option is to live a life where no woman accuses you of anything. If you don't deal with state having equal responsibility for its actions to all people, it will become an instrument of torment at the hands of the advantaged group and through them a general method of abuse for use of the state.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    Agreed a foundation of course is free to do it as it likes, governments it's each jurisdiction to deal with (though if the USA does something the other Anglosphere muppets tend to copy it.)

    The most important phrase is: it should have a responsibility.

    It did the breaking, it harmed an innocent person, it has a responsibility. That is important for 2 reasons, firstly the obvious to ameliorate the harm done to a person (the means I agree will never be ideal), secondly so that it has clear pressure not to pursue a form of tyranny, which it will, the situation at the moment is government will screw you over - your only option is to live a life where no woman accuses you of anything. If you don't deal with state having equal responsibility for its actions to all people, it will become an instrument of torment at the hands of the advantaged group and through them a general method of abuse for use of the state.
    to quote a favourite character of mine

    "deserves got nothing to do with it"


    now substitute deserve with responsibility.

    i want to help men. getting the system too is futile. gynocentrism is there.

    men need to work for each other if they can. but the system will NOT stop expecting it too! thats a HUGE problem with MRA etc.. they expect it to be fair. IT AINT
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarrator View Post
    Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

  3. #13
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarrator View Post
    to quote a favourite character of mine

    "deserves got nothing to do with it"


    now substitute deserve with responsibility.

    i want to help men. getting the system too is futile. gynocentrism is there.

    men need to work for each other if they can. but the system will NOT stop expecting it too! thats a HUGE problem with MRA etc.. they expect it to be fair. IT AINT
    Creating a charity or foundation to address a problem is a fine thing to do. But if you leave a system broken endlessly producing more crushed lives you'll never keep up with the damage done. It is way easier to destroy lives than to repair them. Even if the individuals themselves have to do it all and a foundation just provides a hand up and some needed information.

    Regardless of what MRA's may expect from their respective countries and international community, it has to be addressed, hard, futile, unrewarding or whatever you have to treat the sickness not just the symptoms. It's not a case of one approach over another except as far as individuals or organised groups are making their own choices, if the system is left unaddressed it will spread, if it can keep getting away with it, it will be adopted wherever a man goes and however he tries to live. It's not that hard a point. Something is gunning for you, it's not gonna stop unless it is stopped by those it's going for.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  4. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by voidspawn View Post
    Creating a charity or foundation to address a problem is a fine thing to do. But if you leave a system broken endlessly producing more crushed lives you'll never keep up with the damage done. It is way easier to destroy lives than to repair them. Even if the individuals themselves have to do it all and a foundation just provides a hand up and some needed information.

    Regardless of what MRA's may expect from their respective countries and international community, it has to be addressed, hard, futile, unrewarding or whatever you have to treat the sickness not just the symptoms. It's not a case of one approach over another except as far as individuals or organised groups are making their own choices, if the system is left unaddressed it will spread, if it can keep getting away with it, it will be adopted wherever a man goes and however he tries to live. It's not that hard a point. Something is gunning for you, it's not gonna stop unless it is stopped by those it's going for.
    creating this charity will bring things to light.
    but tell me

    do you believe people are ready for red pills?
    do you believe people can EVEN TAKE red pills? the average person?

    i dont mean red pills for how men are treated i mean GYNOCENTRISM!

    id rather do something that helps than bank on a government thats flailing currently.

    can i say that...

    i think you are wrong.
    this isnt a sickness
    this isnt something that is going to be cured
    it isnt even something people want cured.

    this is how humans are.

    understand that. and live with it. but pushing for change will only alienate you.

    push for justice for things that can change things directly... men are problem solvers after all. so i make a charity.

    the laws will never be just because even if they become just... gynocentrism will favour women in sentencing. in police stops, in being charged, in life!
    Last edited by TheNarrator; 09-13-2017 at 10:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarrator View Post
    Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

  5. #15
    Senior Member voidspawn's Avatar
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    These are good questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarrator View Post
    creating this charity will bring things to light.
    but tell me

    do you believe people are ready for red pills?
    No I don't think they are or even interested. They consider this to be normal and the majority of them will consider that there is nothing that needs changing. A great many may even realise that it's unfair and unequal, but won't care. They will think it's good for men to be under this pressure and that women deserve better treatment because women become mothers and mothers are the most important thing in the world in their opinion.

    do you believe people can EVEN TAKE red pills? the average person?
    No and I don't think the majority will even ever hear about it. I think the majority have never even given a moments thought to feminism, or a myriad of other topics we talk about. But I don't think they need to. Societies are shaped by the margins, not the many. The many want to carry on their lives as they are in front of them, they care about the people they meet and the challenges they face. No matter how dramatic the media gets, after they've had a two minute chat and shared a few ooohs and ahhhs they get back to what really worries them, getting to work, paying off bills, preparing for the weekend or whatever else is on their minds.

    i dont mean red pills for how men are treated i mean GYNOCENTRISM!

    id rather do something that helps than bank on a government thats flailing currently.
    I think you should do what you think is right, it's gonna take more than one idea and more than one push. Rather than being wrong or right, it's more important that things are done, and if the right intent is all we've got to go on, then so be it. The really big things that shape the human race are out of our hands, and hopefully out of the hands of feminists or any other tell people what to do and think ideological group.

    can i say that...

    i think you are wrong.
    Of course you can, I've been wrong plenty. I used to think feminists and socialists were good people. I used to think they wanted a society that helps people and that they believed in egalitarianism, justice for all, rule of law, democracy and most fundamentally they were driven by fairness.

    this isnt a sickness
    No the shape of humanity, society is just the reality that it is. If everybody says white is black and black is white then that is how it is. However systemic, institutional and state power, is a sickness when it abuses citizens. It was never intended to abuse women, pretty much everything that ended up pressing onto women structures they didn't really want, was originally intended to help and protect them. Fathers didn't have daughters to see them grow up miserable and married off to a man who will treat them like property. That's the fundamental reason why the changes women wanted were successful, men never wanted them to be anything but happy and safe in their lives. Women who want to ruin lives for men, who don't share the same basic humanity towards men that men do towards women, are sick. They are not just gynocentric, gynocentrism should be sated by women wanting the best for themselves and men wanting the best for them. Any more than that is a corruption of what may be a fundamental human perspective. Gynocentrism explains how the excess happens, of itself it isn't the problem, and it can be realised. A fundamental respect for the free choice of human beings should mean that men who choose not to, don't have to live gynocentric lives. That is the shape of a healthy society and should be the policy of a healthy government and public. If it's not like that... it's not healthy.

    this isnt something that is going to be cured
    This is pretty simple, either people find a way to live that can continue or society collapses. Society is more like a slowly learning course correcting behemoth that veers off track as the crowd lurches in a direction and slowly changes it's mind. Such is life in a social organism. However some things are ideas parasitical attached to tendencies. Stripping legal rights and treating people unfairly is going to rend harm upon innocents. Despite what it looks like the majority of people don't want that, they don't want to be part of a society that does that. They don't want to be at risk of that themselves. Feminism has caused changes by incessantly lying. They've gotten so used to lying they believe their own lies, and the media latches onto it and pushes it forward, the politicians being corrupt cowards go with it. But people overall one not that completely stupid, and two get bored and want new fashions, they get tired of the same old preaching. The more this shit is done the more it becomes the fashion to defy it. Human rights activism is at core about stability and raising the basic standard for everyone, it's targeted things like landmines, chemical weapons, incarceration without trial, torture etc for that reason. The human race gives up this millimetre by millimetre ratchet towards something better, then the limits start breaking, those following the rules will start to break them, things enter a decline of people being self serving and no longer trusting group abstractions like government, police, courts and law. When things go too far it risks a lot, what human rights activists do is start shouting it's gone too far, this is wrong, they draw attention to the canaries in the coal mine. All they have to be is not lying. We've got a mess, feminists have made a business of lying, but that doesn't change the basic need, and the core response.

    it isnt even something people want cured.
    The closer it gets to home the more they will. The basic problem isn't the unjust excesses at the moment, it's that things like feminism are never satisfied, the people who do it are addicted to the rewards, they get greedy, they want more power. Destroying lives becomes the evidence of their power and they start to crave seeing the evidence of their power. Just take a look at the jubilantism that rips through feminist forums and media when they get a scalp. Their contempt isn't even remotely contained, and they don't care if they did it by lying and cheating, they just want the thrill of wielding power. When a normal blue pill person sees that in their face, it breaks the warning glass, they might not wake up immediately but it's like when you see an adult going too far shouting at a child and the child shows fear to their parents and falls into themselves, maybe you've not witnessed abuse but it sticks in your mind, you become wary that they person might be abusing that child.

    this is how humans are.
    People are in general are dumb, not evil. They basically want two things, to do the right thing and live without hassle.

    understand that. and live with it. but pushing for change will only alienate you.
    The only change MHRA push for are those things defined by rights and the entity being targeted is the state. MHRA should and I hope never do become activism addicts or power hungry. I don't think they will, I think the core motivation is get it done, then get on with your life.

    push for justice for things that can change things directly... men are problem solvers after all. so i make a charity.
    And it's a good thing to do. But it doesn't change the fact that the justice system was created by men to solve problems. It's in need of maintenance, because it ain't going anywhere.

    the laws will never be just because even if they become just... gynocentrism will favour women in sentencing. in police stops, in being charged, in life!
    This isn't about winning an ideological war, MHRM are not feminists, it's not about rewriting the code of the world or human race. The human race can turn into whatever it wants, fairness is enough. I don't resent treating mothers kindly, I don't have a problem with giving up some comfort so that children are looked after and safe. So women may have it easier than men and that may be permanent, and that of itself don't really matter, nothing I ever got easy did a blind bit of good in shaping my character or capacity to get stuff done. If women don't want the growth that comes from facing problems that's not a big issue to me. But if they want to degrade their humanity then turn men into their legal punching bags, destroy the futures of children and corrupt government, well that ain't okay. Gynocentrism may be the reality, but that doesn't mean it should be left to lurch unopposed into an excess that destroys lives.

    Your choice to do a charity doesn't create an either or situation. It doesn't even clash with any goals. Any way the problem can be highlighted or dealt with is good. Just don't do it silently, what gets witnessed and what happens to men needs to be keep being raised. But it's a collective effort, as long as none of us joins in hiding the mess and covering up things with lies, there will be someone else who can make use of the evidence.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Quote Originally Posted by menrppl2 View Post
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

  6. #16
    i think we're very much on the same page void
    the one thing i still dont think you understand is just how much this is the way it is

    you say if it hits to home they will understand

    yes but any change will be temporary until gynocentrism re-establishes itself

    very few people are cognitive to the point of constantly checking themselves and other things.

    and... nothing i do is quiet void. if i do this... it will be heard ...heh
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarrator View Post
    Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

  7. #17
    I fully agree with you both N and V.

    Cliff Richard publicly saying this is a step in the right direction, highlighting the injustice in our legal system. N, he is a millionaire several times over so if he feels so strongly about this he could put his money to good use and help prevent it in the future. His side of the story has been easier to publicise because his accuser was male, not female.

    Of course, any attempt to set up a group/charity like this is fraught with danger as feminists will put pressure on people in high places to close it down before it opens. If Cliff funds it he may well become the victim of negative publicity, but that is the price that suffragettes, black civil rights leaders, and gay rights activists first faced. Besides, he does not need to publicise his financial support, nor do other famous men who have been through the same experience, and he may not be the sympathy figure that can spearhead this movement – he’s still a multi-millionaire so people can wrongly argue the damage is minimal, but that leaves the likes of you N and the rest of us to do the work that needs to be done as we’ll have the funding. First problem solved if they fund it.

    Second problem - the story of falsely accused men is a story that no one wants to read - they close the book after the first few pages as the scene it sets goes against the current status quo, but it’s about skipping to the end, which at present hasn’t been written.

    V, you are absolutely right, if the focus is on the accused it won’t get far, but focus on the innocent, although still likely to be unpopular with large parts of society, can be easier to justify. As someone here said, feminism has been growing for years, it started small, changing small things, until it has ballooned into the oppressive ideology it is now. MRAs may need to start small and change small things, bringing publicity to the clearly unjust, before it can even think about tackling the larger issues.

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