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Thread: What the Deuce - We're all doing porn logic now

  1. #11
    @simpleman Electoral college is a crappy system... I think we all agree on this... so... ?

    Like bloody hell we all agree the electoral college is a crappy system. In fact, it is more proof that the founders knew a hell of a lot more about politics and human nature than you do.

    They have records explaining everything they did. They understood that in cities politics were different than in the country. They also understood that cities would of themselves dominate the nation so they wanted to reduce the otherwise absolute control the cities would have on the nation.

    They gave all states 2 senators, and in the other house, varied depending upon population.

    They also set it up so a few cities could not take control of the nation. This is amazing since they did not yet know they would ever have cities with millions of people in them. Or, that those cities would be easily controlled by socialists and communists.

    If we get rid of the electoral college, this nation will almost instantly become Communist. LA and NYC and a few others will simply control the nation, and the millions of people in fly-over land will have little input on what happens. In fact, the main mode of the nation will be robbing the working stiffs in fly-over and transferring it to baby Momma's in the cities.

  2. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    @simpleman Electoral college is a crappy system... I think we all agree on this... so... ?

    Like bloody hell we all agree the electoral college is a crappy system. In fact, it is more proof that the founders knew a hell of a lot more about politics and human nature than you do.

    They have records explaining everything they did. They understood that in cities politics were different than in the country. They also understood that cities would of themselves dominate the nation so they wanted to reduce the otherwise absolute control the cities would have on the nation.

    They gave all states 2 senators, and in the other house, varied depending upon population.

    They also set it up so a few cities could not take control of the nation. This is amazing since they did not yet know they would ever have cities with millions of people in them. Or, that those cities would be easily controlled by socialists and communists.

    If we get rid of the electoral college, this nation will almost instantly become Communist. LA and NYC and a few others will simply control the nation, and the millions of people in fly-over land will have little input on what happens. In fact, the main mode of the nation will be robbing the working stiffs in fly-over and transferring it to baby Momma's in the cities.
    I would have thought they where just overwhelmed by the logistics of having every citizen to vote in the stated level, so they made it local to have a lot of smaller more manageable pieces... but now we have better roads, better communications, better infrastructure, we can for sure also have a better better democracy.

    But if you have any documentation about this wonderful debates about cities and farms, this is something I would like to educate my self about... would you point me out on that direction?

  3. #13
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by polite_disagreement View Post
    @simpleman Electoral college is a crappy system... I think we all agree on this... so... ?

    Like bloody hell we all agree the electoral college is a crappy system. In fact, it is more proof that the founders knew a hell of a lot more about politics and human nature than you do.

    They have records explaining everything they did. They understood that in cities politics were different than in the country. They also understood that cities would of themselves dominate the nation so they wanted to reduce the otherwise absolute control the cities would have on the nation.

    They gave all states 2 senators, and in the other house, varied depending upon population.

    They also set it up so a few cities could not take control of the nation.
    From what I can surmise from the Wiki article on the US Electoral college, what you are saying seems to be way off.

    This is amazing since they did not yet know they would ever have cities with millions of people in them.
    Yeah, truly amazing .... the founding fathers were not only wise, they were literally psychic ...

    Or, that those cities would be easily controlled by socialists and communists.
    So ... New York and Cleveland and St Louis and Boulder and LA ... all controlled by communists...?
    McCarthy would turn over in his grave.
    While some tinfoil merchant must be rubbing his hands.

    If we get rid of the electoral college, this nation will almost instantly become Communist.
    In a matter of minutes, surely. I can just imagine it.
    Every little Midwest town erupts in military parades, the mayor in bearskin cap watching from the fire station balcony.

    LA and NYC and a few others will simply control the nation, and the millions of people in fly-over land will have little input on what happens. In fact, the main mode of the nation will be robbing the working stiffs in fly-over and transferring it to baby Momma's in the cities.
    Also, the ban on having sex while standing upright will be lifted, although everyone knows full well that it may lead to dancing.


    And so, Armageddon draws nigh.

    M
    Last edited by Manalysis; 09-12-2017 at 03:13 AM.

  4. #14
    Senior Member Manalysis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleman View Post
    I would have thought they where just overwhelmed by the logistics of having every citizen to vote in the stated level, so they made it local to have a lot of smaller more manageable pieces... but now we have better roads, better communications, better infrastructure, we can for sure also have a better better democracy.

    But if you have any documentation about this wonderful debates about cities and farms, this is something I would like to educate my self about... would you point me out on that direction?
    "Madison acknowledged that while a popular vote would be ideal, it would be difficult to get consensus on the proposal given the prevalence of slavery in the South:

    "There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to the fewest objections."

    ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electo...United_States) )


    M

  5. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    "Madison acknowledged that while a popular vote would be ideal, it would be difficult to get consensus on the proposal given the prevalence of slavery in the South:

    "There was one difficulty however of a serious nature attending an immediate choice by the people. The right of suffrage was much more diffusive in the Northern than the Southern States; and the latter could have no influence in the election on the score of Negroes. The substitution of electors obviated this difficulty and seemed on the whole to be liable to the fewest objections."

    ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electo...United_States) )


    M
    OK... if I understood this right, the point of the electoral college is to allow blacks to vote but making sure they don't actually get to make any decision about the leadership?

  6. #16
    Administrator Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleman View Post
    I would have thought they where just overwhelmed by the logistics of having every citizen to vote in the stated level, so they made it local to have a lot of smaller more manageable pieces... but now we have better roads, better communications, better infrastructure, we can for sure also have a better better democracy.

    But if you have any documentation about this wonderful debates about cities and farms, this is something I would like to educate my self about... would you point me out on that direction?
    The US is not a Democracy for a reason. In its founding the makers understood the tyranny of the masses, at the time it was Religion:

    “If I could conceive that the general government might ever be so administered as to render the liberty of conscience insecure, I beg you will be persuaded, that no one would be more zealous than myself to establish effectual barriers against the horrors of spiritual tyranny, and every species of religious persecution.”
    ~Founding Father George Washington, letter to the United Baptist Chamber of Virginia, May 1789
    Today it is other ideologies no less toxic than religious zealots.
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  7. #17
    Administrator Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by simpleman View Post
    OK... if I understood this right, the point of the electoral college is to allow blacks to vote but making sure they don't actually get to make any decision about the leadership?
    The discussion revolved around representation based on population and the compromise was equal representation of the states in the Senate(biCameral system). The paradox is that by doing this it reduced the power/influence in the senate from the southern states which were growing at a faster pace than many in the north. the Fourteenth Amendment addressed equal representation.

    To allude that establishing the electoral college was in any way a "support" of slavery or is singularly a consequence of slavery is a lack of understanding of the process that led to its establishment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Compromise
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  8. #18
    Administrator Grumpy Old Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manalysis View Post
    From what I can surmise from the Wiki article on the US Electoral college, what you are saying seems to be way off.


    Yeah, truly amazing .... the founding fathers were not only wise, they were literally psychic ...


    So ... New York and Cleveland and St Louis and Boulder and LA ... all controlled by communists...?
    McCarthy would turn over in his grave.
    While some tinfoil merchant must be rubbing his hands.


    In a matter of minutes, surely. I can just imagine it.
    Every little Midwest town erupts in military parades, the mayor in bearskin cap watching from the fire station balcony.



    Also, the ban on having sex while standing upright will be lifted, although everyone knows full well that it may lead to dancing.


    And so, Armageddon draws nigh.

    M

    For fuck sake: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Compromise
    ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
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    It is not a battle to win but an attitude to share.
    AVFM Mission Statement

  9. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
    The US is not a Democracy for a reason. In its founding the makers understood the tyranny of the masses, at the time it was Religion:
    I read here, that the founders basically did not trust the people...

    Anyway, in my opinion, the tyranny of the masses is much better than the tyranny of the elites... but what do I know?

    I think the problem here is on timing... US is modeled after Locke's Social contract, though Rousseau made a much better proposal, by the time Rousseau came into place Locke influence was already an institution in North America, for instance his participation on the Constitutions of Carolina and the Grand Model...

    For those who don't know... Locke's proposal is that the leadership should be an intellectual aristocracy, or of the smartests members of the society should lead the rest, while Rousseau proposal is a democratic solution; every person is an equal vote.

    Both proposals have their pros and the cons... I personally like the democracy solution better. From the school of Simon Rodriguez... instead of putting barriers in place to prevent the people to do something stupid, we will be better of if the effort was made to better educate the people, instead... probably the main reason why Rodriguez opted for a career as an educator instead of a politician.

  10. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
    The discussion revolved around representation based on population and the compromise was equal representation of the states in the Senate(biCameral system). The paradox is that by doing this it reduced the power/influence in the senate from the southern states which were growing at a faster pace than many in the north. the Fourteenth Amendment addressed equal representation.

    To allude that establishing the electoral college was in any way a "support" of slavery or is singularly a consequence of slavery is a lack of understanding of the process that led to its establishment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Connecticut_Compromise
    OK, I was asking the questions, because I don't really understand the point of the electoral college...

    I basically see it as bureaucracy...

    I will read the link later on, today I have not more time.

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