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Thread: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

  1. #11

    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruffalo
    Actually in all seriousness, since victor.zen brings it up, how would you feel about gay male eyes on your body? How would you feel about being the object? Flattery? Disgust? Laugh it off?
    Flattery. Its happened to me before, and its nice to know you are attractive to somebody. Granted, it can be awkward since the gay guy is embarrassed, but I try to make sure he doesn't feel ashamed. They have their own set of stereotypes to deal with, and letting them feel awkward may prevent them from developing the confidence to laugh it off themselves.

  2. #12

    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    [video=youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkUhW41Qpjg[/video]
    Shieldwife had a good response to objectification here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruffalo
    Actually in all seriousness, since victor.zen brings it up, how would you feel about gay male eyes on your body? How would you feel about being the object? Flattery? Disgust? Laugh it off?

    I'm not asking this question to shame anyone, and I am aware that in the scenario I am asking about there may other factors at play that inform your reaction, I just feel it adds another dimension to the objectification question and its important, I think, to at least be honest with ourselves.
    In my experience, most truly straight men have one of the above reactions to being approached (Flattered, mildly disgusted, amusement, no reaction) (I don't approach people I don't already know very well, but I know a lot of gay/bi folks who would.) In my experience, when a guy panics because another guy is looking at him, it is either do to denial of one's own homosexual feelings (resulting in anger), and/or insecurity about one's own body image (resulting in fear).

  3. #13

    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    I got a sneaky suspicion that the women who shout about being objectified are worried it isn't happening to them!
    Once you get past 40 unless you do the whole chasing youth through makeup etc, as a woman you are increasingly invisible. Not much fun if it screws with your sense of entitlement
    I grew up kinda homely, only really grew into strong bone structure in my 30s.
    I love it when a bloke sees me as 'hey, nice looking woman'
    And hell yes, I'm looking too. Had my housemate in fits of laughter in my commentary about our good looking postman and how long he would last on our round...

  4. #14

    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Aimee McGee
    I got a sneaky suspicion that the women who shout about being objectified are worried it isn't happening to them!
    Once you get past 40 unless you do the whole chasing youth through makeup etc, as a woman you are increasingly invisible. Not much fun if it screws with your sense of entitlement
    I grew up kinda homely, only really grew into strong bone structure in my 30s.
    I love it when a bloke sees me as 'hey, nice looking woman'
    And hell yes, I'm looking too. Had my housemate in fits of laughter in my commentary about our good looking postman and how long he would last on our round...
    I'm glad you brought this up. I recall middle aged women telling me that they miss the cat calls. They only found them annoying in youth since they would not stop, but age made them come to appreciate the positive attention.

    A multilinguial friend of mine in the service was stationed in Afghanistan got the chance to visit France and Germany. He was a lighter brown color, well-built and handsome. He was also considered exotic by the women there. He told me that he enjoyed the attention he got from the non-American women, but eventually grew tired of it. Since women would actually fight over him and slap his ass, he started to get offended by the lack of privacy. He essentially felt like a "piece of meat."

    But, once he came back to America and no one gave a shit anymore, he started to miss it all.

    This is kind of telling, I think.

  5. #15
    Senior Member ComradePrescott's Avatar
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    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    Quote Originally Posted by mauvebutterfly
    Quote Originally Posted by ComradePrescott
    I think there is this narrative where males are all sex crazed chumps without any depth and females are suffering the misfortune of having depth and being forced to interact with romantic prospects that are so far beneath them. Females, of course, being romantic while men are sexual.
    The problem I have with "being romantic" is that it's inevitably just a series of hoops you are expected to jump through. I've found that the more practical people are, the less romantic they tend to be.

    My first girlfriend and I got along really well. I never bought her a present, took her to dinner, or spent any money on her. Likewise, she never spent anything on me. On occasion we would have something that we both wanted to do, and we would figure out the cheapest and easiest way to do it. Most of the time, we would just hang out. Cooking, studying, and sex.

    At the time I felt really guilty about not being romantic enough. By the standards set by society, we had a remarkably unromantic relationship. I talked with her about this, and she said that she didn't want me wasting money on her.

    I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the idea of romance is really arbitrary. In my opinion, functional relationships work in spite of romance, while dysfunctional ones are more likely to be built around romance.
    I think that what you touch on is just our present conventional standards for romance which I agree are dysfunctional. I'm of a mind that love ought to be nurtured. Healthy love is the love of a seed planted and carefully thought for so that it grows into a strong tree and survives the ages whereas "exciting movie-love" is like a rose. Pretty for a moment, thorny, and wilts quickly.

    You sound like you have found a fine lady, so congratulations on that. I personally consider myself to be a romantic, but not conventionally. If someone remarks a fondness for something or cares to share with me their thoughts, I may in time turn that to some positive effect for them with the details in mind if I care for them. For example, getting someone a book by a favored author or surprising them with something they could not obtain themselves on say their birthday or some such.

    But I agree, the current and most commonly understood meaning of "romance" really just involves a lot of hoops and the jumping therein.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruffalo
    Quote Originally Posted by victor.zen
    If you would not trash gay men for liking dick
    I'm in ur threads objectifying yer trousers









    If you got tones, I'm here to lower them.


    Actually in all seriousness, since victor.zen brings it up, how would you feel about gay male eyes on your body? How would you feel about being the object? Flattery? Disgust? Laugh it off?

    I'm not asking this question to shame anyone, and I am aware that in the scenario I am asking about there may other factors at play that inform your reaction, I just feel it adds another dimension to the objectification question and its important, I think, to at least be honest with ourselves.
    I get hit on by gay guys pretty regularly, I will admit. To be honest, I'm not particularly disgusted. Probably just more embarrassed to admit it in real life due to the ridiculous and subtle levels of homophobia in Australia. But anyway, I get hit on by a gay guy (well, I assume he must be gay... heh) about once a month and really I am just flattered.

    Honestly, it does more to tell me about my level of attractiveness than my interactions with women because I find men in general to be more straight forward and honest simply. I can never tell what girls want or mean or think half the time.

    I always feel a kind of repulsion, but that's simply because I am a heterosexual male. A very ugly woman might stir the same sort of repulsion in me, but I think I've a civil and cordial enough nature that I never let it manifest perceptibly.

    So, no. It does not offend me or disgust me overmuch and I reject it out of my own tastes, but I do appreciate it as a form of compliment. It does not objectify me. Sexual attraction based on physical attributes is in my opinion typically benign.

  6. #16

    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruffalo
    Actually in all seriousness, since victor.zen brings it up, how would you feel about gay male eyes on your body? How would you feel about being the object? Flattery? Disgust? Laugh it off?

    I'm not asking this question to shame anyone, and I am aware that in the scenario I am asking about there may other factors at play that inform your reaction, I just feel it adds another dimension to the objectification question and its important, I think, to at least be honest with ourselves.
    Well first of all I think it matters to a certain extent what ones own sexuality is - a heterosexual man or woman is more liely to be flattered by admiring looks from opposite sex I would imagine than the admiring looks of same sex person. More specifically I wouldn't mind as long as the "looks" are not the intial part of someone coming on to me as that would make me feel somewhat uncomfortable.

  7. #17

    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    Thanks for answering peeps. Its interesting that we seem to appreciate that anything we feel whilst being objectified is solely down to our own feelings, conditioning, fears, perceptions or taste and not some fault on the part of the observer.

    Quote Originally Posted by ComradePrescott
    I always feel a kind of repulsion, but that's simply because I am a heterosexual male. A very ugly woman might stir the same sort of repulsion in me, but I think I've a civil and cordial enough nature that I never let it manifest perceptibly.
    Yup, I feel exactly the same way with the orientation and genders switched.


    Quote Originally Posted by ComradePrescott
    Sexual attraction based on physical attributes is in my opinion typically benign.
    ^ This. This to the motherfucking power of 1,000,000 ^

    I really don't understand when sex became such a negative thing in our culture.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ComradePrescott's Avatar
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    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    Quote Originally Posted by Gruffalo
    Thanks for answering peeps. Its interesting that we seem to appreciate that anything we feel whilst being objectified is solely down to our own feelings, conditioning, fears, perceptions or taste and not some fault on the part of the observer.

    Quote Originally Posted by ComradePrescott
    I always feel a kind of repulsion, but that's simply because I am a heterosexual male. A very ugly woman might stir the same sort of repulsion in me, but I think I've a civil and cordial enough nature that I never let it manifest perceptibly.
    Yup, I feel exactly the same way with the orientation and genders switched.


    Quote Originally Posted by ComradePrescott
    Sexual attraction based on physical attributes is in my opinion typically benign.
    ^ This. This to the motherfucking power of 1,000,000 ^

    I really don't understand when sex became such a negative thing in our culture.
    Well, in the interest of complete honesty I will say that sexual attraction based on physical attributes can be malignant. Case and point: pedophilia. Adults who are attracted to the physical attributes of pre-adult humans (regardless of the sex of anyone involved) cannot be considered benign by any moral human being. However, considering sexuality itself malignant because of that is absolutely absurd.

    I'm trying to think of a suitable comparison, but all I can think of is perhaps considering eating meat malignant because eating humans is malignant or considering all women to be unfit for motherhood because some mothers murder their children. It doesn't make sense to paint with such broad strokes.

  9. #19

    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    What women are saying is that when a man looks at a woman he should be thinking about what he can do for her and not about sex.

    Sex is the treat that the woman tosses to the pet when it has been a good boy and properly performed the trick. Naughty doggy should not be staring at the treat but paying attention to the commands. Sit. Stay. Beg. Play dead.

  10. #20

    RE: "Fuck Your Opinion" with Victor Zen: Objectifying Women

    As bimbocracy (as I prefer to call it) began to gain social traction, it slipped comfortably into the vacuum left by the diminishing adherence to Christianity. The early-morning erections once signs of hideous sin under conservative Protestantism went on being so under the aegis of liberal "feminism." Both institutions intuited that when you can make basic biological imperatives appear sinful in the eyes of the people you want to control, you can get your victims to do 90% of the work for you.
    As long as we remain corporeal beings with a normal sex drive, we'll go on treating one another as objects, so to speak, and there's no reason that can't be a normal, healthy, happy situation--but it's up to each of us to recognize the problem and resist the control these groups would impose.

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