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Thread: A hard question - By a timid guy D:

  1. #21
    Senior Member JP Tate's Avatar
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    There may be no disagreement between us. As you describe it, that's what I think MGTOW is, too. It doesn't mean that men can't have relationships with women, it simply means that a man will have decided what kind of relationship is acceptable to him and what is not acceptable. He will engage with women on his own terms. He won't fool himself into thinking that if he continually concedes to her expectations and submits to the expectations of society that somehow it will all turn out all right.

    He'll know that he has to protect himself emotionally, financially and in every other way, because society will not lift a finger to protect him. He'll be aware that very few women in contemporary society even know how to respect a man, after so many decades of the constant denigration of all things male. So if he wants a relationship in which he is respected, then he'll be aware of how difficult that will be to find. He'll know that marriage will place him in a position of legal disadvantage, that parenthood places mothers in a legally advantaged position over fathers, and he'll be unlikely to lay himself open to such exploitation and heartbreak. (After all, if a woman knew that by having children she had to accept that her husband was free to kick her out of her home and steal her children at any time he thought fit, then how many women would be willing to accept motherhood on those terms?)

    If a man is not willing to accept the inferior status alloted to him by society, then this will rule out certain life-choices that ought to be available to him but aren't as society is presently constituted. If he will not settle for anything less than equal respect and equal entitlements, then as you say, "If there are no women out there willing to at least give me that, then I'll be content to myself". Just so. A MGTOW isn't an asocial survivalist forest-dweller living on berries, he's simply a man who won't collude in his own exploitation or accept society's demands that he must treat a woman better than she treats him, that he must respect a woman while she fails to respect him, that he must support a woman who does not support him. And if this refusal to cooperate with society's demands means that he must live alone, then so be it. MGTOW doesn't mean that he has to live without female contact, but it does mean that he insists upon living with self-respect.
    We fight rather to keep something alive than in the expectation that it will triumph. (TS Eliot)

  2. #22
    Senior Member JP Tate's Avatar
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    I've just read through my last post and realised that it sounds as if I'm laying down the law about what MGTOW is. I should add, of course, that I'm only describing what I think MGTOW is, I'm not suggesting that this is the only way of looking at the idea. This is merely what the concept of MGTOW means to me.
    We fight rather to keep something alive than in the expectation that it will triumph. (TS Eliot)

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by MrIncognito View Post
    But one day out of nowhere I got accused of enslaving women, I was a part of a secret society to opress them...
    Welcome to the dark-side! Has anyone shown you our secret MRM handshake yet???

  4. #24
    Senior Member Anonymous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Autolite View Post
    Welcome to the dark-side! Has anyone shown you our secret MRM handshake yet???
    For what is a man, what has he got? If not himself, then he has naught. To say the things he truly feels and not the words of one who kneels.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by manginamagic View Post
    Tiger, not only my bad experiences, but the bad experiences of almost every man I see, has shown me that most men are SLAVES, second class citizens, or as nurdygirl would say, the new nigger. A lot of people said it aint my place to get involved in helping niggers, I am not a nigger after all, not my fight. I will sit on the fence, but folks like Abe Lincoln said no, we can't let this continue, we have to liberate these niggers, because slavery is wrong. I don't agree with your advice Tiger, and think you telling this guy to remain on the fence, will only hurt him and the rest of us long term, his female friend has already joined the ruling class to enslave more niggers. I dont hate women, but as a group of people, they have awesome power, and it is being used to hurt men everywhere, and it needs to be stopped, and it won't stop if incognitos sit by and dont get involved and people like you tell them to remain neutral when war is raging all around us.
    I haven't thought about it in these terms, which I think does a good job making its point . . . a comparison to marginalized group of people that society generally ignores and doesn't not care about their lack of voice . . . no rights, and none coming any time soon.
    **BTW, This is a different user than "NO MA'AM" (without the underscore/exclamation point). Just an fyi. Didn't realize there was another active user with this name when I signed up, be he's graciously mentioned it's no big deal . . . just didn't want to confuse everyone! Glad to be here!**

  6. #26
    Senior Member Crumbock's Avatar
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    Theres an old saying, "Women marry thinking she will change him, but does not. Men marry thinking she wont change, but she does"

    First of all, she changed. Hard to pinpoint it, but women have herd instincts. Is she running with a new herd? Is she friends with a new angry female?
    I can say that finding the MRA, this site, taking the red pill, so to speak, has changed me to the extent I see things I did not before. I am much more careful and circumspect than I was before, although I was decidedly Conservative before. Now more so.
    But of course, some of it is just age, wisdom and experience. Feminism is a pretty new phenomenon, but women are not.
    At your age, given your apolitical nature, it still would not hurt to at least dig a bit to discover her fundamental leanings.
    Lastly, are you sure its feminism? Is she going to Kill All Men rallies? Does she troll truck stops picking up bull dykes?
    A basic trait of women is that NOTHING is ever their fault, and they are never satisfied. If she got tired of you, in her mind, it HAS to be your fault. Thus, she uses the feminist crap to beat you to death with your own male oppressor-ness, making it, TA-DA! Your fault!
    Welcome to Female "Logic" 101

  7. #27
    i would say the war is over; the feminists and their liberal/Marxist sycophants think they have won, but they haven't. There is just some mopping up left and it's over.

    The USA is totally bankrupt and no one can even talk about cutting expenses in a serious way. When will the death certificate be written? I expect within 9 years or less There is no way to keep increasing the national debt forever and when it hits, the end, it will be quick.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by manginamagic View Post
    Incognito, you can do a lot more. Start with your personal group of friends, coworkers, etc. Everytime they try to throw some shit or lie up to you about women, chivalry, abuses, etc etc, use the stats and stories here to counter that, as Paul Elam has said, we need to get these ideas out and be talking about them. Everytime you see marketing or advertising that makes men into a bitch, complain loudly to everyone you can. Any movie, tv show, book, article, that anyone is talking about around you, if you find it is oppressive to men, talk about it. You are the new nigger, and if you don't start pointing that out every chance you get, through every means possible, you will remain a second class citizen and the evil will spread. You already say you hate feminists agenda, and unfair privelege, so take your natural feelings and tell people every chance you get why you hate thier power and oppression. Constatnly initiate dialogue with whoever you can about the oppression in real life, online wherever. Get involved in whatever student groups, community groups, religous groups, political groups or start some that men are the new niggers, and they need a voice.
    this is a terrible idea in a lot of ways.

    co-workers? if you want to keep your job. dont bring up anything about mens rights and how feminism is evil.

    because you will not last 1 year at your job after
    Quote Originally Posted by TheNarrator View Post
    Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

  9. #29
    That is true. Being a men's activist is only for the rich; or self-employed; or union members as I was. Keep your mouth shut in public, saving it for anonymous boards, until and if you ever get retirement, then move to another country such as Mexico where your money goes further and men rule.

  10. #30
    a union may not be the protection you think it is
    A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

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