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I hope we don't get smeared with this spoiled kid's actions

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Humansplaining w/ Jarred View Post
    You have to read well into the article, but there's an attempt to link him to the Men's Rights Movement, in this article from salon:

    "Elliot Rodger’s fatal menace: How toxic male entitlement devalues women’s and men’s lives"
    http://www.salon.com/2014/05/25/elli...nd_mens_lives/



    I'm assuming that the author is merely conflating 'Pickup Artists' with MRAs, as if they are basically the same thing. I haven't heard a single example of a SPECIFIC Mens Rights forum that he posted on - only those of PUAs, and the disgruntled 'ex-PUA' groups.

    This next paragraph starts out with a surprising admission, which initially appears to shield the MRM from blame. However, as you read on, it's clear that this is a clever mislead - we can't be blamed for the VIOLENCE that Rodger engaged in, but we should still be harshly criticized for our use of 'irresponsible, problematic language towards women' or whatever...



    What frustrates me more than anything, is the core reality that these people fail to understand - if in fact he WAS exposed to MHRA philosophy and commentary, then the violent rampage he engaged in was IN SPITE OF, and not BECAUSE OF this. Anybody who knows anything about the MRM, and AVFM in particular, knows that this is an inherently NONVIOLENT, pacifist movement. It's also about standing up for men AS A GROUP, not every individual man, regardless of his words or actions. So absolutely nothing to do with personal ego or self-centeredness at all, which is the exact OPPOSITE of the attitude that Rodger was clearly displaying in his final video.

    The MRM exists to try to STOP further tragedies like this from happening, not to facilitate or encourage them! If he had been exposed to us prior to this tragedy, and taken enough time to let our core message really get through to him, then there's no way he'd ever be able to rationalize acting out violently, or blaming OTHER MEN for standing in the way of his self-pleasure and fulfillment!

    I do tend to take this very personally, because I was once very bitter and frustrated about my struggles and unfulfilled attempts with women in high school and college. And I can now say with absolute certainty, that since I've become an MRA, I've been more relaxed and at piece with my own sexual/romantic situation than I've ever been before! I've come to terms with the likelihood that I will never have the kind of relationship I deeply desire, and I can just let it be, because I no longer feel pressured to take it personally!

    And to have the movement that I proudly credit with saving me from my troubles, be outright BLAMED for the extreme and violent actions of others - based on outright CONJECTURE - it almost brings me to tears...
    Well done friend. I'm glad you find some confidants amongst the rubble of men in pain and frustration. Very nice post and great points.
    ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
    virtue of character--practical/ethical wisdom--human flourishing

    It is not a battle to win but an attitude to share.
    AVFM Mission Statement
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    • #47
      I just experienced a big revelation:

      Elliot Rodger is the physical embodiment of the 'Mens' Rights straw man' that Feminists have used to bash us in the past, based on their visceral, unchecked assumptions of what we must really be:

      He hates women.
      He's sexually frustrated.
      He feels ENTITLED to sex and affection, among other things.
      He thinks of himself as a 'nice guy' (a.k.a. 'supreme gentleman', as he put it).
      He won't take any responsibility for his own failings.

      They've been throwing out this straw man for several years now (the SNL segment being just one example), but they've hard a hard time making it stick, at least in the minds of people OUTSIDE the Feminist social bubble. Think of the barrage of head-scratching that the (exceptionally unfunny) SNL segment induced in the general populace. Nobody understood it, because they didn't have a human face to tie to that characterization/trope.

      But once the shooting incident happened, the Feminists saw this as their chance to unfavorably 'brand' the Mens Rights Movement, in the eyes of the public at large, because they know that pretty much EVERYONE has been exposed to this event, as a major news story. So they pounced on it, almost INSTANTLY, dumping enough poison into the well to drown an elephant. They saw it as the equivalent of a 'Hail Mary pass', one that would either result in total victory or utter defeat, in their campaign to marginalize and discredit us.
      Last edited by Humansplaining w/ Jarred; 05-26-2014, 08:38 PM.
      The Duluth Model is incomplete and outdated; It's time we replaced it with a Superior Model...

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      • #48
        I really do not like the title of this thread. I am not trying to excuse the man's actions but one needs to know why he ended up like this. Labelling him as spoiled is majority of peoples initial instinct but it seems a lot more complex than that.

        I only watched a bit of the video below but it explains it a lot better than the title "spoiled" brat.

        Originally posted by Andres View Post
        Stefan Molyneux did a very in-depth and insightful analysis of Elliot Rodger. I'll post it here because I feel that it fits very well into the context of this thread:

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        • #49
          It continues. The Suey Park-style anti-White and anti-male racism on full display, over at Salon:

          "White guy killer syndrome: Elliot Rodger’s deadly, privileged rage"
          http://www.salon.com/2014/05/27/whit...ivileged_rage/

          Come on, now. He was half ASIAN, on his mother's side. Shouldn't Male Asians share some of the culpability in this incident?

          In case the answer wasn't immediately apparent, NO!!!! Anybody who uses a person's identity - race, gender, orientation, etc. - to smear a person's words or actions, especially in such an instantaneous, knee jerk fashion, is a miserable, BIGOTED piece of shit!
          The Duluth Model is incomplete and outdated; It's time we replaced it with a Superior Model...

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          • #50
            Originally posted by Humansplaining w/ Jarred View Post
            Anybody who uses a person's identity - race, gender, orientation, etc. - to smear a person's words or actions, especially in such an instantaneous, knee jerk fashion, is a miserable, BIGOTED piece of shit!
            I guess you haven't heard of the large pile of shit that is known as feminism (aka women's movement).

            Before I forget, check your privilege and die you cis scum.

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            • #51
              I believe there is more to this story than what Elliot has told everyone on his videos and manifesto. I think that something terrible, such as abuse, or some type of horrible event happened to him, and the other problems he had such as: loneliness, being a virgin, lack of a social life, and being an outcast, just added onto his pain. There must have been a trigger event, such as a terrible accident or some violent scenario that pushed him over the edge. Eventually he became suicidal, but he was also angry at how society had wronged him, and wanted to take out his anger on the system, because if he were to just kill himself, he would be a nobody, while if he were to go on a rampage he could get notoriety. Just my opinion.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by The Wanderer View Post
                I believe there is more to this story than what Elliot has told everyone on his videos and manifesto. I think that something terrible, such as abuse, or some type of horrible event happened to him, and the other problems he had such as: loneliness, being a virgin, lack of a social life, and being an outcast, just added onto his pain. There must have been a trigger event, such as a terrible accident or some violent scenario that pushed him over the edge. Eventually he became suicidal, but he was also angry at how society had wronged him, and wanted to take out his anger on the system, because if he were to just kill himself, he would be a nobody, while if he were to go on a rampage he could get notoriety. Just my opinion.
                More likely than not, his parents emotionally neglected him at the same time as financially giving him everything he wanted, same as the Columbine Killers.
                The ancient shitposter returns.

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                • #53
                  Well I just added my 2 cents worth to their comments. Seems there's a fairly even distribution of views with the odd loon making references to MRAs.

                  C
                  Can things really be this complicated?

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by MrScruffles View Post
                    More likely than not, his parents emotionally neglected him at the same time as financially giving him everything he wanted, same as the Columbine Killers.
                    I don't agree with Stephan Molyneaux on many topics, but I still find some of his insights useful. Molyneau's latest video on Rogers brings up some possiblities for his being psychologicaly damaged along those lines.
                    "As absurd as it may sound, today's men need feminism much more than their wives do. Feminists are the last ones who still describe men the way they like to see themselves: as egocentric, power-obsessed, ruthless and without inhibitions when it comes to satisfying their instincts"
                    -Esther Vilar

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                    • #55
                      I can't find the case but i was reading about a young man who used this as a defence where he was drunk driving and killed three people. Parents gave him everything but didn't teach him right from wrong. He avoided jail and went to a rehab for a year or so instead.

                      Affluenza i think it was termed.

                      Edit. This is the case

                      http://abcnews.go.com/US/affluenza-d...ry?id=21259169
                      Last edited by nawotsme; 05-28-2014, 08:46 AM.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJV81mdj1ic

                      What can I say?

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                      • #56
                        Look at this double-standard.

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                        • #57
                          Having just learned about this issue, I'm still researching it and trying to look at all the many different topics being brought to the table by this "horrific acts". The killing of 10 peoples (not seven, because they are stating he killed 3 roommates with a knife) and wounding 11 more. The many questions I asked myself is this about MRM feminism or even PUA? What is really being sold to the general American people? What solutions have been offered to counter these types of "horrific acts? Who or what is really being targeted for "blame"? After watching this video, I believe I might have gotten some of my answers to my many many questions...

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                          • #58
                            And then we go on too this one.

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