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  • Used Too Many Bullets...

    So there's now a precedent that cops need to be aware of. You can go to jail for "using too many bullets". So if your life is being threatened, shooting the guy is okay but just don't shoot him too much...

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/forcillo-g...154233610.html
    "The truth is sometimes a poor competitor in the market of ideas" George F. Kennan

  • #2
    He shot the kid 6 times AFTER he was on the ground.

    Sorry, cops have to be held to the same standards as everyone else, and "minimum necessary force" is a common standard.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by StrongSilentType View Post
      He shot the kid 6 times AFTER he was on the ground.

      Sorry, cops have to be held to the same standards as everyone else, and "minimum necessary force" is a common standard.
      ....This ^^^

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      • #4
        Originally posted by StrongSilentType View Post
        He shot the kid 6 times AFTER he was on the ground.

        Sorry, cops have to be held to the same standards as everyone else, and "minimum necessary force" is a common standard.
        However, the judgment was made with the benefit of hindsight. Forcillo wasn't aware how many times his initial shots had hit and was determined to keep the guy down so he fired again.

        As we've talked about before, cops are trained to shoot to kill once the decision to use their service pistol is made. Forcillo acted IAW his training and procedure and was thrown under the bus because of it. Of course, this is a known liability of the job for the police...
        "The truth is sometimes a poor competitor in the market of ideas" George F. Kennan

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Autolite View Post
          However, the judgment was made with the benefit of hindsight. Forcillo wasn't aware how many times his initial shots had hit and was determined to keep the guy down so he fired again.

          As we've talked about before, cops are trained to shoot to kill once the decision to use their service pistol is made. Forcillo acted IAW his training and procedure and was thrown under the bus because of it. Of course, this is a known liability of the job for the police...
          I disagree. Forcillo shot the boy three times, then there was a pause for a few seconds and he pumped six more rounds into him. That is not procedure.
          I doubt Forcillo meant to kill him but he did fuck up immensely whether intentionally or not.
          “No one is free who has not obtained the empire of himself. No man is free who cannot command himself.”
          ― Pythagoras

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          • #6
            Originally posted by malcolm View Post
            I disagree. Forcillo shot the boy three times, then there was a pause for a few seconds and he pumped six more rounds into him. That is not procedure.
            In Forcillo's judgment the initial shots did not eliminate the threat. That's why he shot Yatim again. We weren't there and we have the luxury of judging the situation in hindsight. The cop wasn't afforded that luxury.

            Personally, if I'm asking a cop to put their life on the line to protect my sorry ass I don't think I'd be too quick to criticize
            their judgment for doing what they feel they need to do in fulfilling that obligation or even to save their own skin while performing that duty. But maybe that's just me.

            In any case the CBC Radio did an interview today with a forensic psychologist (Dorothy Cotton). They talked about the police interactions with a mentally unstable, mentally ill armed person. The doctor seemed to have all the right answers. This being the case, the next time your being held at bay or attacked by an armed nut-bar call a forensic psychologist instead of a cop. They apparently know how to deal with these situations...
            Last edited by Autolite; 07-29-2016, 03:15 AM.
            "The truth is sometimes a poor competitor in the market of ideas" George F. Kennan

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Autolite View Post
              In Forcillo's judgment the initial shots did not eliminate the threat. That's why he shot Yatim again. We weren't there and we have the luxury of judging the situation in hindsight. The cop wasn't afforded that luxury.

              Personally, if I'm asking a cop to put their life on the line to protect my sorry ass I don't think I'd be too quick to criticize
              their judgment for doing what they feel they need to do in fulfilling that obligation or even to save their own skin while performing that duty. But maybe that's just me.

              In any case the CBC Radio did an interview today with a forensic psychologist (Dorothy Cotton). They talked about the police interactions with a mentally unstable, mentally ill armed person. The doctor seemed to have all the right answers. This being the case, the next time your being held at bay or attacked by an armed nut-bar call a forensic psychologist instead of a cop. They apparently know how to deal with these situations...


              For Christ's sake, watch the video. What threat after the first three shots?
              “No one is free who has not obtained the empire of himself. No man is free who cannot command himself.”
              ― Pythagoras

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by malcolm View Post
                For Christ's sake, watch the video. What threat after the first three shots?
                Still, the video does not show us what the cop was dealing with. It's only in hindsight that the determination was made that the initial shots were fatal. Forcillo's intention was 'the application of deadly force in response to the threat of deadly force'. Forcillo, through training and instinct, fired his service pistol until the threat was eliminated. Forcillo did what the cops are trained and conditioned to do when confronting an armed individual who refuses to let-go their weapon. Forcillo believed that Yatim still posed an imminent threat after the first shots. The Crown says that he didn't.

                I get the impression that many people do not understand the police mindset regarding the 'application of deadly force' pertaining to when and how it is applied. Evidently Yatim didn't (unless his intention 'was suicide by cop'). Consider that the Crown did not convict Forcillo of murder as there was no question regarding the necessity for the application of deadly force. Forcillo was charged and convicted with attempted murder for continuing to shoot after the firing of those initial fatal shots.

                The Crown determined that the initial shots were fatal in hindsight. A determination that Forcillo did not make at the time. Myself, I would have not crucified the cop for not being capable of making an instantaneous determination like that under those circumstances. I'm now waiting to see what's going to happen with the appeal...

                http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...cing-1.3698183
                Last edited by Autolite; 07-29-2016, 10:50 AM.
                "The truth is sometimes a poor competitor in the market of ideas" George F. Kennan

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