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  • NBC seeks out gender parity for female directors

    http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/nbc-...ty-1202514561/

  • #2
    You just can't help but wander whether all these NBC, BBC "gender parity" campaigns are all just occurring randomly at the same time or this all a preplanned and organised effort. I mean, over the past ten years we have had all our leaders replaced by women. Men in the media are suffering from the same marginalisation on every level. Men are having the same problem in the education system (universities, schools etc.) and every other area of life from the justice system to healthcare....This all seems like an intentional and organised effort.... or am I just being paranoid?
    Last edited by Equity; 08-04-2017, 02:32 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Equity View Post
      You just can't help but wander whether all these NBC, BBC "gender parity" campaigns are all just occurring randomly at the same time or this all a preplanned and organised effort. I mean, over the past ten years we have had all our leaders replaced by women. Men in the media are suffering from the same marginalisation on every level. Men are having the same problem in the education system (universities, schools etc.) and every other area of life from the justice system to healthcare....This all seems like an intentional and organised effort.... or am I just being paranoid?
      “Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you.” ― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

      To be honest, I think there is a serious point when we joke about being paranoid, and that is if anyone lets anyone else simply push them around in the hope that they'll get bored or be satisfied and stop, they are being as delusional as someone who thinks there is someone persecuting them when there is not.

      But beyond that... when you have a demonstrated paranoid group using their paranoia as an excuse to attack another group, the group being attacked better learn to defend themselves, because it's not going to stop.

      Feminism is an ideology that will always tends towards extremism because it thrives off promoting fear. When the fear of being struck is dealt with, it becomes a fear of being struck upon provocation, then it becomes a fear of being struck back, then it become fear of consequences for carrying out violence without reciprocation, then it becomes fear of loss of special protected status.

      One should ask what drives this, especially when men pretty much universally wander around with no desire to engage with annoying paranoid feminists at all.

      Well it's their own mental prison that they can't accept their own insecurity as their own problem, that creates the necessity to create an object of hate to externalise that fear onto. This doesn't resolve the insecurity which then mutates to fear they can't destroy what they hate. Ultimately they have no recourse, when left to their own solution, but to seek to destroy what they hate. Even if granted special powers to proclaim and destroy threats on their own narrative, unless they exercise those powers they'll fear it will be insufficient, and when they do exercise them, they'll fear they won't be able to do it again.

      Women who are anti feminists have said, women should act, because who are these nutters going to come after when they've destroyed the men.
      Last edited by voidspawn; 08-04-2017, 03:15 PM.
      "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
      Originally posted by menrppl2
      Can't live with em, life is great without them.

      Comment


      • #4
        Feminism has stepped up its game and society is becoming exponentially more feminised…up until ten years ago feminism was doing its thing very much behind the scenes whereas now its sexism, its gender war has gone very public. This I think is the main driving force behind my freshly growing 'paranoia'…lol but I don’t necessarily think that feminism's exponential growth is all bad. The more feminism becomes empowered, the greater its negative impact and the greater its sexism against men and the stronger our case against it.

        Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
        if anyone lets anyone else simply push them around in the hope that they'll get bored or be satisfied and stop, they are being as delusional as someone who thinks there is someone persecuting them when there is not.
        There are many guys out there who sadly believe that doing nothing in the face of this onslaught by feminism is the best way to go about dealing with the situation. This onslaught that has seen men denied jobs, a voice in society and government, a future in education, a family, the right to see their children, the right to justice, even the right to life (http://nationalpost.com/opinion/barb...6-8563b364b138). Others still, namely those who subscribe to ‘solutions’ such as those offered by MGTOW believe that running away from the problem and shunning society is the best way to go about dealing with the situation that we men are in….

        I cannot in no way accept either of these attitudes, shunning society or doing nothing. Such reactions allow feminism free reign. They empower feminism as apposed to help defeat it.

        I’ve given this comparison before, but I’m going to use it again here because its relevant to this comment.

        In the early to mid 1900s, in the US, black people were required to sit at the back of buses whilst the front seats were reserved for whites and blacks were required to give up their seats for whites. Its not until Rosa Parks did what she did, sat at the front and refused to give up her seat for a white person that the levers of change started turning. Men suffer similar discrimination today at the hands of women and institutionalised feminism. We can learn a lot from people such as Rosa. What MGTOW is doing today is the equivalent of boycotting busses and what those other men who prefer to do nothing are doing, their actions equate to accepting the sexism without challenge and giving up their seats and their rights and the fight against feminism. Such actions do not bring about change. Such actions make things worse for men. Such actions empower feminism. I hope people don’t take offence from this. This is just my humble opinion but I believe that MGTOW (and I know that this is not the subject of this thread but it is relevant to this discussion I think) is a huge gift to feminism.

        Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
        But beyond that... when you have a demonstrated paranoid group using their paranoia as an excuse to attack another group, the group being attacked better learn to defend themselves, because it's not going to stop.
        Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
        One should ask what drives this, especially when men pretty much universally wander around with no desire to engage with annoying paranoid feminists at all.
        I agree with you voidspawn:

        “You maybe uninterested in waging ideological war against feminism. The fact is, feminism is already waging ideological war against you....you don't get to choose" Prof. Janice Fiamengo.

        We, men and women, have no choice but to fight back.
        Last edited by Equity; 08-08-2017, 06:14 AM.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Equity View Post
          We can learn a lot from people such as Rosa.
          Yes we can Equity, I agree. She made the right stand in the right way. She was also allowed to. Males who did what she did got beaten into submission or arrested. Black men murdered, no one cared. There was a lot to the civil rights movement. And there was a lot of pain meted out to the men who made a stand.

          Rosa Parks protest came at the point people were willing to listen, when attitudes were shifting, when people knew deep down they'd ignored crime after crime being committed but they could bring themselves to react - when it was done to males. Black men hung for false rape allegations, when white women chose to indulge their fantasy of black masculinity of a physical labourer and they got embarrassed when found out, ruined their reputation, so the men had to swing to protect her privilege.

          Rosa Parks did what was right, she could do it, she was allowed to do it. She was the acceptable face to the silent majority growing ashamed of their bigotry.

          Earl Silverman, killed himself after years of trying to see the creation of a shelter for male victims of domestic abuse. He set up a shelter himself and tried to do it by himself. He tried to do what Erin Pizzey did with society's sympathy, except he had society's malice. And Erin was soundly punished by society when she wanted to see help for men too.

          Will Earl Silverman be remembered as a light in the darkness, as a voice against madness?

          No he won't society, has already pronounced: https://www.theatlantic.com/internat...uicide/315761/

          Feelz sorry for the guy... but all he did was bash feminism. He made the Rosa Parks statement, he said this is wrong and I'm not going to accept this, he wasn't even demanding equality he was saying there needs to be some help, some acceptance that the issue exists. The response as you can read... and it's across the board in MSM... 'yeah well it's sad, some men suffer domestic abuse.... but muhhh feminism more important ain't we right.. c'mon everyone more feminism!'

          Our Rosa Parks has to be Cassie Jaye, because Earl's life wasn't worth enough, and his life wasn't worth enough because he was a man, with his 'evil' confirmed by not being a feminist. Rosa Parks was allowed to be black woman, and allowed to stand up for herself by living and demanding to live as an equal citizen. Earl Silverman wasn't allowed to be white man who cared about all men who suffered violent abuse at the hands of the person who is supposed to love them.

          Originally posted by Equity View Post
          What MGTOW is doing today is the equivalent of boycotting busses and what those other men who prefer to do nothing are doing, their actions equate to accepting the sexism without challenge and giving up their seats and their rights and the fight against feminism. Such actions do not bring about change. Such actions make things worse for men. Such actions empower feminism. I hope people don’t take offence from this. This is just my humble opinion but I believe that MGTOW (and I know that this is not the subject of this thread but it is relevant to this discussion I think) is a huge gift to feminism.
          MGTOW is primarily a lifestyle. It's self defence reaction, it is not intended to be a reaction to feminism, it's a reaction to society under feminist laws. It is a reaction to society. It's not a protest, and can only be a protest for an individual MGTOW who chooses to make his life choices a protest... but that ain't MGTOW philosophy to be doing something as reaction to what someone else does.

          MGTOW can be MHRM and anti-feminist, but MGTOW itself is a lifestyle and philosophy shared to keep men safe, especially to help young men see there is more than the tiny limited number of life patterns that inevitably lead a man to spending his existence in service to women.

          MGTOW as a dick strike is patently absurd. Women don't give a shit about that. But women do care about being rejected, women and society care about women being rejected. Society can't stand the statement that it's women are such bigots that men, men who are biologically and socially programmed to worship at the altar of woman, are saying bugger that religion, you can shove your paradise and keep your heaven. MGTOW's real protest comes from the message that a man should spend every last penny earned by his efforts on himself, on anything he wants except women and the society that derogates and abuses him at the same damn time as it demands he works to support it.

          MGTOW is more than just refusing to vacate the seat. Because men don't have a seat on the bus, they get to build the bus, but they don't get a seat. A man can build a home and a family, then not have a family or a home. Rosa Parks could stand up for not being given equal place on a bus - and the bus is a symbol of society. Men get to build all of society's wealth and comfort, do work and make contribution far beyond any Rosa Parks and not only not get equal place, and have their share of what they've contributed taken away from them. MGTOW's message is really simple, don't make shit for society which treats you like that. MGTOW isn't about refusing to get on the bus, it's about refusing to build the buses.

          You are right, MGTOW is a huge gift to feminism, MGTOW is doing everything feminism asks. It's vacating jobs for women, lowering ambition for men, removing men from chasing women, telling men to deal with their sexuality without seeking comfort from women. Yup it's a gift to feminism. The good men are going, it's all yours now. MGTOW are not even taking their ball back, their vacating the field leaving it open for women. Women can have everything they want, but they can't have men wanting them, not MGTOW men, not men who know their own mind and sense of self worth in the world. Those men don't want women and they don't want a shitty society that treats them like dirt either.

          It's not a protest, it's not a movement for change, nor political position it's a damning statement on reality. It's what it is, because it's the only thing it can be.

          That doesn't mean MGTOW men can't join in the work that needs to be done, there is no MGTOW law upon them. And fact is the warning messages and safer lifestyle options are good information for non MGTOW males, if those males want to engage and try to survive in society whilst attempting to change it.

          The moaning PGTOW as some call them, are not MGTOW at all. MGTOW isn't a pick up or protest strategy, ladies you are missing out isn't something that has a blind bit of influence of women or society. The removal of MGTOW work and cash from society, now that's where it's worthwhile. Personally I'd like to see MGTOW business mentality form, small business so they can employ only red pill men and women without being closed down, but working on bigger projects on business to business or co-operative basis. Completely aggressive tax avoidance, massive system independence, not begging to courts and lawyers to solve disputes but resolving it themselves, spend their money with each other, always look out for ways for a guy to not spend a buck into the system. And spread the lessons learned.

          It isn't the same as MHRM's work, MHRM has to fight the line for rights. Stop the erosion that pushes men below the equality line and fight against the immediate suffering being wrought in men's lives. But it does no harm if MGTOW can even just fractionally stop feeding this greed driven beast that is stamping male spirit to dust.

          MGTOW who say you should DO nothing basically are saying because you can't do anything... etc. Which is a fair POV, but that is their individual opinion and that opinion don't make MGTOW, blowing out MGTOW sounding words, don't make someone MGTOW. They either live the lifestyle and follow through on the philosophy, which weakens society's ability to deride men or they are little blue pill chumps squeaking out words badly copied from MGTOW because they want women to feel sorry for them.
          Last edited by voidspawn; 08-08-2017, 01:33 PM.
          "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
          Originally posted by menrppl2
          Can't live with em, life is great without them.

          Comment


          • #6
            My generation did much more actual activism than yours is doing. Yakita yakita yakita on the Internet is not activism.

            We proved in spades that activism for men's rights, and for father's rights is totally and absolutely impossible. Why?

            Because in the end women have a zillion more votes.s

            In spite of the criticism of MGTOW, the marriage strike, which contrary to Dalrock's stubborn opinion, really does exist, is the only thing which has actually shown gains for men. When you want something from another person, you must either give them something in exchange, or take something away for failure to comply.

            Until the marriage strike, men had nothing to take away. Nothing at all. You don't hear much about it unless you frequent female blogs, but a large number of women are suffering at their inability to find a mate. The press, as usual, doesn't cover it so men don't know their work is being successful. But, they are hurting.

            My son-in-law, known as tubba-guts, told me when I moved to Mexico that I was a coward and would not stay and fight, like he is going to do.

            He has taken one trip to D.C. and cowered in the midst of hundreds of thousands of men. Such a studly hero! I picketed our court house with one other man, and wrote 90 extremely militant op-eds in 15 years to our local newspaper. And, this fat *** tries to shame me.

            I compare it to the Viet Nam war. Some poor devil goes over, puts in his 13 months in the bush, and when it is his time to go home, a new guy gets off the plane and tells him, "Don't be a coward and run off. I am here now. Stay and fight with me."

            However, there is still a slight semblance of freedom in the USA, no more than a wisp. Fight and eventually if the Collapse does not fix this, you will also learn that successful activism is impossible.

            In all the talk about Rosa Parks I notice no one even mentioned why her protest was successful Read and heed these words. She had a sympathetic world press. Protests without a sympathetic world press are almost always doomed before they start. No, it is worse than that. Men have a hostile press.

            Most of you don't even know my generation even did anything. A while back a man on a men's board totally and completely damned my entire generation to hell for all eternity and to the deepest and hottest parts of Hell, for doing nothing. Why did he think that? Because the press did not spoon feed the details to him. And, if a man of my generation starts telling the things we did, he will soon enough be bullied off the Internet.

            I say again. We did a lot more activism than you guys are doing. And, wit a hostile press, we achieved nothing. MGTOW scares the hell out of the entire establishment. A year or two ago, I read about a large divorce firm, probably on one of the coasts, that went bankrupt. Don't you feel sorry for those vicious bastards?

            Comment


            • #7
              Now there's no longer a need to argue for why there should be gender parity.
              It's like women = magical penicillin - all kinds of evil would be struck down if only there were enough women around.

              M

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Equity View Post
                You just can't help but wander whether all these NBC, BBC "gender parity" campaigns are all just occurring randomly at the same time or this all a preplanned and organised effort. I mean, over the past ten years we have had all our leaders replaced by women. Men in the media are suffering from the same marginalisation on every level. Men are having the same problem in the education system (universities, schools etc.) and every other area of life from the justice system to healthcare....This all seems like an intentional and organised effort.... or am I just being paranoid?
                I don't think so.
                At some epoch it was fashion for sociologists to make network maps; afaik, they don't do them anymore.
                But a feminist network map would be instructive.
                I think there is widespread national and international cooperation and coordination.
                Identical feminist memes and programs appear simultaneously in many countries, often far apart.
                Our national media reported on Cosby- who was never on tv here - at the same time as the US media, for instance.
                The lack of diversity in outlook and programs between the various national feminist organizations is actually rather telling.
                You don't see "French Feminism" vs. "German Feminism", for example, or any other such pairings.
                Which says a lot about female ingenuity, and feminist organization.

                M

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by polite_disagreement View Post
                  My generation did much more actual activism than yours is doing. Yakita yakita yakita on the Internet is not activism.

                  We proved in spades that activism for men's rights, and for father's rights is totally and absolutely impossible. Why?

                  Because in the end women have a zillion more votes.s

                  In spite of the criticism of MGTOW, the marriage strike, which contrary to Dalrock's stubborn opinion, really does exist, is the only thing which has actually shown gains for men. When you want something from another person, you must either give them something in exchange, or take something away for failure to comply.

                  Until the marriage strike, men had nothing to take away. Nothing at all. You don't hear much about it unless you frequent female blogs, but a large number of women are suffering at their inability to find a mate. The press, as usual, doesn't cover it so men don't know their work is being successful. But, they are hurting.

                  My son-in-law, known as tubba-guts, told me when I moved to Mexico that I was a coward and would not stay and fight, like he is going to do.

                  He has taken one trip to D.C. and cowered in the midst of hundreds of thousands of men. Such a studly hero! I picketed our court house with one other man, and wrote 90 extremely militant op-eds in 15 years to our local newspaper. And, this fat *** tries to shame me.

                  I compare it to the Viet Nam war. Some poor devil goes over, puts in his 13 months in the bush, and when it is his time to go home, a new guy gets off the plane and tells him, "Don't be a coward and run off. I am here now. Stay and fight with me."

                  However, there is still a slight semblance of freedom in the USA, no more than a wisp. Fight and eventually if the Collapse does not fix this, you will also learn that successful activism is impossible.

                  In all the talk about Rosa Parks I notice no one even mentioned why her protest was successful Read and heed these words. She had a sympathetic world press. Protests without a sympathetic world press are almost always doomed before they start. No, it is worse than that. Men have a hostile press.

                  Most of you don't even know my generation even did anything. A while back a man on a men's board totally and completely damned my entire generation to hell for all eternity and to the deepest and hottest parts of Hell, for doing nothing. Why did he think that? Because the press did not spoon feed the details to him. And, if a man of my generation starts telling the things we did, he will soon enough be bullied off the Internet.

                  I say again. We did a lot more activism than you guys are doing. And, wit a hostile press, we achieved nothing. MGTOW scares the hell out of the entire establishment. A year or two ago, I read about a large divorce firm, probably on one of the coasts, that went bankrupt. Don't you feel sorry for those vicious bastards?
                  case in point

                  http://hollywoodspurplehearthouse.com/

                  theres discussion on lack of press

                  mgtow and expat are what men can do for themselves. but the demonization, persecution, and slavery of men in the west, gives govt support and gets the cotton picked.....its not going to get better for men in the west, activism will be ignored.....all we can do is help the demonized persecuted and slaved that want to be helped.

                  no one cares about lies and injustice.....its about government having power and ppl getting cotton.
                  Last edited by menrppl2; 08-09-2017, 11:02 AM.
                  A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by menrppl2 View Post
                    .....all we can do is help the demonized persecuted and slaved that want to be helped.

                    That is why I refer to my present only on-line efforts as OPERATION RESCUE.

                    I haven't convinced a large number of men to GTHO. But, each one is a major personal victory.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      Yes we can Equity, I agree. She (Rosa Parks) made the right stand in the right way. She was also allowed to. Males who did what she did got beaten into submission or arrested. Black men murdered, no one cared. There was a lot to the civil rights movement. And there was a lot of pain meted out to the men who made a stand.
                      This is an extremely valid and intelligent point that you have made voidspawn. Women and men are different so it might be unfair for me to give Rosa as an example for how men should behave. Rosa was a woman and women naturally arouse sympathy in men, even more so in a feminised, female privileged world, one that caters to their every whim. Men are much more inclined to feel sympathy towards women than they are towards men. Men also feel an obligation to protect and provide for women. Women do not have the same feelings of sympathy and protection towards men. Neither do men towards other men. Neither does society on an institutional level. Society has throughout time favoured women in the media and in law enforcement and in the justice system. These disadvantages are all also aggravated by feminism. Women in feminised societies are raised to believe that they are victims, victims of men. A victim feels contempt towards their victimiser so they are even less inclined to feel sympathy for male protest. Men do not have the privileges that women have in society. So a man is much more inclined to face difficulty in protest than women. A man is much less likely to inspire and effect change than women but I do not think that this entirely negates my example. Sure, men have it more difficult than women in protest but does this justify one not doing anything or boycotting society? If anything this female privilege, this discrimination towards men in society should inspire men to more vigorously pursue protest as apposed to run away from the problem and isolate themselves from or boycott society.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      Earl Silverman, killed himself after years of trying to see the creation of a shelter for male victims of domestic abuse. He set up a shelter himself and tried to do it by himself. He tried to do what Erin Pizzey did with society's sympathy, except he had society's malice. And Erin was soundly punished by society when she wanted to see help for men too.

                      Will Earl Silverman be remembered as a light in the darkness, as a voice against madness?

                      No he won't society, has already pronounced: [url]https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/04/earl-silverman-suicide/315761/

                      Our Rosa Parks has to be Cassie Jaye, because Earl's life wasn't worth enough, and his life wasn't worth enough because he was a man, with his 'evil' confirmed by not being a feminist. Rosa Parks was allowed to be black woman, and allowed to stand up for herself by living and demanding to live as an equal citizen. Earl Silverman wasn't allowed to be white man who cared about all men who suffered violent abuse at the hands of the person who is supposed to love them.

                      Feelz sorry for the guy... but all he did was bash feminism. He made the Rosa Parks statement, he said this is wrong and I'm not going to accept this, he wasn't even demanding equality he was saying there needs to be some help, some acceptance that the issue exists. The response as you can read... and it's across the board in MSM... 'yeah well it's sad, some men suffer domestic abuse.... but muhhh feminism more important ain't we right.. c'mon everyone more feminism!’
                      You are right voidspawn. Earl’s sacrifices not only did not get him personally anywhere and anything but trouble but his sacrifices have also gone somewhat unnoticed by the good majority of people but these things are all natural consequences of standing up against flawed, corrupt, authoritarian systems, ones which do their best to subvert dissenting views. Earl’s story does not in anyway undermine the value of protest. He was a one man army that went up against what is perhaps the most feminised country in the world after Sweden all by himself. Not many people know about him. If there’s anything to be learnt from Earl’s story it’s not that protest is useless but rather that we need more of it. We need to be more vocal, more forceful, more efficient, more intense in our protest.

                      Earl's story is an example for the great evils of feminism. His life and death have done great damage to feminism and they have the potential to do even more damage in the future once his story goes mainstream. I have used his story countless times as an example for the destructive nature of feminism. Whenever someone asks me for a real world example of how feminism is hurting men I tell them the story of Earl Silverman.

                      For anyone that might read this comment and wander who Earl is. He was a Canadian men’s rights activist and victim of domestic violence at the hands of an abusive wife (who was never held to account for his abuse). When he sought help he suffered great discrimination from feminised services in Canada. Sexist services, which treated him like a villain for simply being male. So he set up his own charity and shelter for abused men in his own home. A shelter and a charity he was forced to finance himself through his own pocket. For 15 years prior to this he campaigned for the Canadian government to help fund his shelter. He was refused that request, ridiculed and blocked by institutionalised feminism, which saw this man and his domestic violence shelter and charity for men as a threat to their hegemony. Much like any person out there who fights for mens rights feminists vigorously attacked him and successfully convinced the Canadian government to turn down all his requests for aid. In 2013 after spending the entirety of his savings on running his charity and after being driven to financial ruin and selling his own house to fund his endeavours and after suffering years of abuse at the hands of feminists, he committed suicide…. but wait this story of the depravity of institutionalised feminism becomes even more disturbing after his death.



                      Following his death feminist journalists and media outlets launched a malicious and vicious campaign against him, mocking and abusing him. One particularly disturbed feminist lowlife named Mary Williams made excuses for his abuse at the hands of feminism and blamed his death on demons in his life in a now infamous article titled ”Feminism Didn’t kill Earl Silverman”:

                      http://www.salon.com/2013/04/29/femi...arl_silverman/

                      Such is the criminality and depravity of feminism. The more you learn about this ideology the more you hate it. The more you are driven to fight against it.

                      Thank you for giving Earl Silverman as an example for the difficulties that men face in society voidspawn. His story, his struggles and sacrifices and his murder at the hands of feminism have served the anti-feminist cause greatly, I think. He’s an inspiration for us all. He will be forever remembered and referred to as an example for a voice against madness.

                      But there’s more to learn from his story. His story also serves as a good example for the errors of running away from one’s problems. Had he still been alive today he would have been the go to source for sexism against men in domestic violence and a great power within this burgeoning movement.

                      What MGTOW and those men who choose to boycott or abandon society are doing today, and I say this with all due respect, is the equivalent of committing suicide, which is only a huge loss to us and a gain to feminism.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      MGTOW is primarily a lifestyle. It's self defence reaction,
                      I do not think that it is a viable defence mechanism voidspawn. Boycotting society and its sexist institutions serves no-one but feminism. In the long term it does nothing but empower sexism and give feminism all it wants and more. It encourages men to abandon their rights to healthy relationships free of exploitation with women. Like you said it vacates the playing field to feminism allowing it free reign. Additionally, it gives feminism exactly what it wants so far as marriage is concerned. Feminism has since its inception fought hard to abolish marriage and MGTOW encourages just that.

                      Feminism, this ideology born of marxism and communism, views marriage as a sexist institution. It has long sought its abolishment and the creation of that community of ‘legalised women’ that are separated from men.

                      “Every woman who lives with or fucks a man helps to maintain the oppression of her sisters and hinders our struggle.” Feminist icon Sheila Jeffreys.

                      Sure, thanks to feminism marriage has become a sexist institution for men. The answer is not for men to abandon their rights to equity in marriage or to withdraw from society allowing feminism free reign. The answer is not to boycott women or marriage but to challenge the sexism, to challenge feminism head on for positive change.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      MGTOW is not intended to be a reaction to feminism, it's a reaction to society under feminist laws. It is a reaction to society. It's not a protest, and can only be a protest for an individual MGTOW who chooses to make his life choices a protest... but that ain't MGTOW philosophy to be doing something as reaction to what someone else does.
                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      MGTOW can be MHRM and anti-feminist, but MGTOW itself is a lifestyle and philosophy shared to keep men safe, especially to help young men see there is more than the tiny limited number of life patterns that inevitably lead a man to spending his existence in service to women.
                      I agree voidspawn and I disagree at the same time. I agree that MGTOW is a reactionary movement. I disagree though that it has a philosophy. No, I think its an irrational response to discrimination driven not by logic but by anger. MGTOW is the worst response one can make to feminist sexism. MGTOW is unintentionally marxist. It is unintentionally communist. It is unintentionally feminist. MGTOW encourages men to abandon their right to equality and ultimately exposes them to the same fate as feminist women. Suffering from psychological problems and dying all alone. God, what better example can we take for the ills of abandoning one’s natural right to union with the opposite sex than that feminist icon Shulamith Firestone. A woman who throughout her life campaigned for promiscuity and against marriage. A woman who would go on to become abandoned at the end of her life by her feminist compatriots and die all alone from starvation in her flat. Her body was discovered weeks after her death after her neighbours smelled the rot of her corpse and informed authorities. No food was found in her flat. Such was her dire state. Such is the fate of all who war against nature. The good majority of the pioneers of feminism were psychologically deranged women and men who suffered greatly as a result of living the feminist ideal.

                      MGTOW is an inadvertently feminist, marxist, communist movement. Its a reactionary, regressive movement born out of ignorance.

                      MGTOW will not keep men safe. MGTOW will hurt men. I know that many of us here subscribe to MGTOW. I do not mean to offend anyone that does. I hope people would read this comment with an open mind and not be hurt by it. Hurting you/Offending anyone on here is not my intention.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      MGTOW as a dick strike is patently absurd. Women don't give a shit about that.
                      I disagree with you voidspawn. Women are obsessed by sex and by men and I think that feminism is the biggest testament to this. Feminism is an ideology formulated, though indirectly, by women and it entirely revolves around sex and men. I think that feminism tells us a lot about the inner workings of the woman’s mind. A mind which revolves around men and sex.

                      “In the The Second Sex, Simone describes male sexual desire as being “Keen but localised” that it “leaves a man quite in possession of himself”. She compares this to the sexual desires of woman “a woman of ardent temperament, who, on the contrary, really loses her mind”. “Woman’s sex feeling extends towards infinity. she longs to melt with him into one.” And I kind of agree with her here. Women are far more sexual than men but they hide it well behind a facade, which helps put them up on a pedestal.

                      The reality of women, when one examines their life and their biology is very far from the “uninterested in sex” facade that they put on to men. This facade elevates them to a position where they must be pursued by men and where the power of rejection is in their hands. Deny women sex. Deny them attention. Don’t chase after them and their entire facade crumbles, falls apart and their desperation becomes exposed. They start pursuing you with a hunger not very much unlike that of a libidinous lecher. Women care more for sex than men do. The moment a woman hits puberty, her thoughts, her entire life begins to revolve around the pursuit of sex from men. That is the way her brain is wired. You see, women unlike men have a biological timer ticking on top of their head. Once that timer runs out they are no longer reproductively viable and their value as viable partners for men falls to zero. This timer is programmed into their genes, into their hormones, into their psychology, into their behaviour and it drives them to vigorously pursue relationships within that narrow window when they are reproductively viable.

                      I do agree with you though that MGTOW as a dick strike is patently absurd as it denies both women and men their natural right to each other. Its an unnatural, irrational response to discrimination.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      But women do care about being rejected, women and society care about women being rejected. Society can't stand the statement that it's women are such bigots that men, men who are biologically and socially programmed to worship at the altar of woman, are saying bugger that religion, you can shove your paradise and keep your heaven. MGTOW's real protest comes from the message that a man should spend every last penny earned by his efforts on himself, on anything he wants except women and the society that derogates and abuses him at the same damn time as it demands he works to support it.
                      Voidsapwn, you are amazing!!!! amazing!!!! I am just blown away. I agree with you 1000% here!!!!!! Women are very much afraid of rejection and society cannot stand women being rejected. This, I think, partly explains the sexist nature of marriage. Society teaches men to approach women with propositions for relationships and for marriage. This leaves the decision in the woman’s hand, which exposes men to rejection whilst protecting women from it. This culture like you said puts women on a pedestal where men are subject to their satisfaction and approval. MGTOW’s “shove it” response to this female privilege, though, does not in any way shape or form address it. Instead it runs away from it.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      MGTOW is more than just refusing to vacate the seat. Because men don't have a seat on the bus, they get to build the bus, but they don't get a seat. A man can build a home and a family, then not have a family or a home. Rosa Parks could stand up for not being given equal place on a bus - and the bus is a symbol of society. Men get to build all of society's wealth and comfort, do work and make contribution far beyond any Rosa Parks and not only not get equal place, and have their share of what they've contributed taken away from them. MGTOW's message is really simple, don't make shit for society which treats you like that. MGTOW isn't about refusing to get on the bus, it's about refusing to build the buses.
                      hmmmmm….but this response does nothing!!!! It achieves nothing!!!! No, sorry. It does achieve something. It leaves your job in building those busses vacant for women to occupy it and for feminists to exploit it. By vacating your job to build those busses you are voluntarily giving up your right to equality without challenge.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      You are right, MGTOW is a huge gift to feminism, MGTOW is doing everything feminism asks. It's vacating jobs for women, lowering ambition for men, removing men from chasing women, telling men to deal with their sexuality without seeking comfort from women. Yup it's a gift to feminism. The good men are going, it's all yours now. MGTOW are not even taking their ball back, their vacating the field leaving it open for women. Women can have everything they want, but they can't have men wanting them, not MGTOW men, not men who know their own mind and sense of self worth in the world. Those men don't want women and they don't want a shitty society that treats them like dirt either.
                      Voidspawn, I’ve said this once and I’ll say it a million times again…You sir are a great eloquent mind. You understand exactly what I’m trying to convey in my comments, even better than me. My answer here is this: Yes, MGTOW is all these things. However, its consequences are not as you might have implied in this paragraph constructive or positive in any way. Boycotting sexism is not, I think, the answer to dealing with sexism.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      It's not a protest, it's not a movement for change, nor political position it's a damning statement on reality. It's what it is, because it's the only thing it can be.
                      I disagree voidspawn. MGTOW is a flawed reaction to sexism. We can do better.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      That doesn't mean MGTOW men can't join in the work that needs to be done, there is no MGTOW law upon them. And fact is the warning messages and safer lifestyle options are good information for non MGTOW males, if those males want to engage and try to survive in society whilst attempting to change it.
                      hmmmm….I see. No, you are right. MGTOW men boycotting marriage does not mean that MGTOW men cannot join in the work that needs to be done in the pursuit of change. However, it does more harm than good. Like I said before, it denies men their rights to a healthy relationship with women. It helps empower feminism. It helps feminism abolish marriage. It helps in breaking up the nuclear family. MGTOW is feminism. Its fundamentally flawed. If all men became MGTOW the human race would cease to be.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      The moaning PGTOW as some call them, are not MGTOW at all. MGTOW isn't a pick up or protest strategy, ladies you are missing out isn't something that has a blind bit of influence of women or society. The removal of MGTOW work and cash from society, now that's where it's worthwhile. Personally I'd like to see MGTOW business mentality form, small business so they can employ only red pill men and women without being closed down, but working on bigger projects on business to business or co-operative basis. Completely aggressive tax avoidance, massive system independence, not begging to courts and lawyers to solve disputes but resolving it themselves, spend their money with each other, always look out for ways for a guy to not spend a buck into the system. And spread the lessons learned.
                      You are not removing cash from society through MGTOW in any way shape or form!!!!!! Voidspawn, the sexist laws remain in place and unchallenged and they will force you wether you like it or not to pay your cash. As a MGTOW you are still bound by the sexist laws of the society that you live in (and I'm not referring to you personally here voidspawn but using a second person narrative). If push comes to shove they will forcefully take your money from you and if you so much as open your mouth your entire life will be destroyed. All you are doing as a MGTOW is abstaining from all practices that put you at risk of exploitation without challenging the sexism. The sexists remain in power and their laws remain in place. You are bound to them and they will come after you.

                      Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                      It isn't the same as MHRM's work, MHRM has to fight the line for rights. Stop the erosion that pushes men below the equality line and fight against the immediate suffering being wrought in men's lives. But it does no harm if MGTOW can even just fractionally stop feeding this greed driven beast that is stamping male spirit to dust.

                      MGTOW who say you should DO nothing basically are saying because you can't do anything... etc. Which is a fair POV, but that is their individual opinion and that opinion don't make MGTOW, blowing out MGTOW sounding words, don't make someone MGTOW. They either live the lifestyle and follow through on the philosophy, which weakens society's ability to deride men or they are little blue pill chumps squeaking out words badly copied from MGTOW because they want women to feel sorry for them.
                      MGTOW has positive attributes but overall, I think, its very very negative.
                      Last edited by Equity; 08-19-2017, 02:46 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Equity View Post
                        MGTOW has positive attributes but overall, I think, its very very negative.
                        I think as ever Equity, you are exceptionally thorough in what you write and you offer specificity in what you criticise and give reason for that. To that extent I probably share similar concerns but I would guess have a different perspective on the big picture.

                        I group these things differently

                        MHRM - part of the human rights movement, it is very egalitarian, is interested equality of rights, of opportunity, equality under the law, equality of citizenship and responsibility. It describes and compares the individual experiences of abuse of rights as compared to universal human rights, and aims to highlight and bring about redress where men's rights are being abused. By nature and intent a person who supports men's human rights, also supports women's, gay, civil, BEM, etc human rights, because all are human and all need an equal foundation from which they are free from persecution.

                        MRM - is mostly similar and can be considered a broader umbrella, but doesn't necessarily take the human rights perspective. This doesn't invalidate it at all, not everyone agrees with a concept of universal human rights, some view that the right and freedom of countries or individuals to define themselves, shouldn't be or can't be done within any form of artificial or made idea of universal rights. This view doesn't negate that point by point things considered human rights aren't good things, but would be wary of slippery slope territory.

                        In reality MRM and MHRM are used pretty interchangeably because of the pragmatic nature of being within jurisdictions and working by wholly peaceful and legal means. Also the nature of men's rights supporters isn't like feminism, they are not trying to reshape the world or force it to remain something, they address the problem that whatever direction the world lurches it needs to stop destroying and derogating the lives of men as it's default behaviour. E.g. if people decide that divorce should be easier, it should be easier for men and women, not it should be easier for women because she can just falsely accuse him of being an abuser.

                        Within these things, you have activity.

                        Men's Issue Awareness - a very vital activity that anyone at any level can participate it, from just talking about issues to writing, documenting, making videos etc. The vast majority of MRM activity is actually about MIA.

                        MR Activism - again pretty broad but describing those who take activist steps. Those would range from protest, organising, creating or demanding facilities for people suffering abuse, veteran neglect, street living / rough sleeping, false imprisonment, educational system abuse etc. MRA is at the front of the problem necessity, and very hard to do, very demanding. My view is constant activism burns you out, and someone who wants to remain an activist should probably check themselves for whether they really care about the issues or if they just love the lifestyle. I've done activism, the willingness to transgress boundaries and defy rules for a greater cause has an addictive effect, in some aspects it can make life quite exciting. I became wary of many activists in general, not specifically MRA, feminists are a much stronger example of addicted activists, preaching down to any crowd they can get access to, wanting special access and place to talk to influencers, wanting to enjoy the thrill of going where they are not invited etc. The line between activists and activists who give activists a bad name is very thin. One of the good aspects about MRA's is by far you see them organising ways of getting locations and bringing people together to participate in men's issue awareness, like the support to get TRP movie seen, what you rarely or never see them do is things on the range of vandalism to institutional infiltration and corruption.

                        MR Advocacy - is the other very important side to men's issue awareness. Raising awareness of these issues we could give Cassie Jaye as being a great example, advocacy you'd point to Diana Davidson, John Hembling, Hannah Wallen. It takes awareness and provides advocacy for those suffering from issues affecting men. I personally regard homeless advocates to be doing great work for men's rights and veteran advocates too, even though those people have quite possibly or even probably no connection to men's rights whatsoever.

                        Of course you get many people like Paul Elam, Tom Goolden, Karen Straughan who do all the activities, on a very full spectrum basis. It's a rich variety and hopefully will keep growing, and attract more, I think there is big need for investigative reporting and journalism. It's been sad that the vast majority of professional investigative journalists have deliberately ignored men's issues, but that is probably due to their being no market for it on mainstream media.

                        Now that run of stuff you probably know about, isn't just to bore you but set context.

                        Red Pill is a concept of no longer denying the truth of what you see. It's pretty simple the mainstream media, typical social conversations go on about mostly utter distraction, movies, games, sports, sex whatever, when social issues arise it's always feminist issues first, then maybe some children's issues and broader poverty and well being issues. You go out, say for whatever reason you end up wandering around town at night, you find rough sleepers most typically young males, not huddled together but secreting themselves in whatever little shelter they can, trying to find safety in isolation whilst they sleep. If you work or volunteer with long term unemployment against mostly males, same with drug addiction, victims of violence, parental abuse, criminal rehabilitation, males again and again. Males are still the only group without proper recognition for sexual and physical abuse by female perpetrators. Yet in blue pill world when social issues are allowed to be talked about they are screaming about mansplaining, manspreading, not enough women in top jobs, women earning less than men must be because men are doing something evil - never an explanation that men work to earn more. You see complete and utter disdain for the reality of the lives of millions of men, and the fact that the numbers of people suffering brutal lifestyles and abuse is massively skewed towards males. Males caught in being part of the rejected are massively likely to be trapped there, this societal level neglect then blames men for there being greater numbers overall of males participating in antisocial behaviour. It's a sickening assumption of privilege, that a man on hard times must be his own fault.

                        I've worked with some heartbreaking cases, I remember one man (a not untypical case) I worked with, when doing unemployment support. Other people, mostly other males but not only males reported him to me for stealing sugar from the kitchen. This was a small man, clearly having lived a rough lifestyle for many years, more than likely dealing with alcoholism, underweight and probably carrying other health problems. There was no way he was going to return to the workforce, and there were no supported facilities to help him. I talked to him, same as I interviewed many people. He'd been a warehouse foreman, worked his way up, might not seem much of achievement, but from zero to responsible for others he had been proud of what he did. He had a small newspaper clipping he showed me, you have to keep in mind, that after years of hard living and isolation this man had a very poor ability to express himself. Most of everyone he came into contact with shunned him, assumed the worst - just like assuming he stole sugar because he was thief by nature rather than he was very desperately hungry. This clipping was about him, his picture looking different but it was him, told the story of how he had saved the lives of colleagues in a warehouse fire. That dirty yellowing frayed clipping was all that let him hang onto the man he used to be, what he had earned in life. Everything had been taken away from him when his wife started an affair with his boss, she conspired to destroy and kick him out of his home so she could replace with his boss. His boss, whom this man had provided outstanding work and service to for years went along with it just to have sex with another man's wife.

                        The wider blue pill narrative, grubby little man who sneaks around stealing things not nailed down if you don't watch him like a hawk. Everyone with a voice happily assuming and chirping that story. The red pill reality only surviving in a frayed clipping, and awkwardly badly told story from a broken man, who knew full well there was no services or help for him and all he wanted from me, was some acknowledgement of his humanity and the opportunity to share a memory of who he once was before the two people who should have most appreciated him chose to destroy him in a society that protects and rewards them for doing so.

                        MGTOW isn't part of the MHRM, it doesn't form part of the debates initiated or participated in by MR advocates with feminists and politicians, MHRM doesn't threaten feminised world with MGTOW.

                        Unlike the other things I mentioned, MGTOW is an actual lifestyle not a campaigning method or way of supporting men's rights. The philosophy is simple, it's about exploring how to live life in a red pill reality. I don't like most of the MGTOW youtubers, I don't like their preaching very few do I consider to even have some good points, but it is what it is, men in pain, anger, rejection, some will move past to a real MGTOW lifestyle and no longer feel any need to vent, some won't and will rail against fate and do blue pill moaning, imagining that if they moan loudly and ludicrously enough blue pill will relent and let them be the boss who screws over a fellow man, instead of the man getting betrayed.

                        There is a lot to MGTOW lifestyle but the philosophy is really contained in the name. It's hard to see some youtuber running a moaning MGTOW channel as being a MGTOW, some guy whose desperate for the acknowledgement of his masculinity from random strangers. Real MGTOW channels wouldn't label themselves, in my opinion, they'd be about health, building, crafts, self sufficiency, independence, male activities - doing stuff. Stuff like survival skills, urban or in the wild, or those videos shared about the guy digging out a cavern through concrete just because he wanted to.

                        I think those living MGTOW lifestyle can and do make powerful and strong allies even leading figures in the MHRM. But I would agree, it's not a strategy, MHRM has to achieve proper goals around rights, not invent purified to ridiculousness ideologies of MGTOW as protest. However, I wont discount that the former foreman I was talking about, would have been a lot better off raised with a red pill message and MGTOW mentality. He would have stood a far better chance of withstanding the attack made on him by his wife and boss, and even if he still lost everything, he'd have stood a better chance of recovery. Instead he was just left wondering why blue pill world fucked him over, why when he did everything asked of him did it betray him and blame him. He was long past anger, just left with confusion and strong desire for a few last moments of humanity before dying in a blue pill world too selfish to even give him that.
                        Last edited by voidspawn; 08-18-2017, 12:43 PM.
                        "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
                        Originally posted by menrppl2
                        Can't live with em, life is great without them.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
                          I don't think so.
                          At some epoch it was fashion for sociologists to make network maps; afaik, they don't do them anymore.
                          But a feminist network map would be instructive.
                          I think there is widespread national and international cooperation and coordination.
                          Identical feminist memes and programs appear simultaneously in many countries, often far apart.
                          Our national media reported on Cosby- who was never on tv here - at the same time as the US media, for instance.
                          The lack of diversity in outlook and programs between the various national feminist organizations is actually rather telling.
                          You don't see "French Feminism" vs. "German Feminism", for example, or any other such pairings.
                          Which says a lot about female ingenuity, and feminist organization.

                          M
                          "Coordination" that's the word that I was looking for. Thanks Manalysis.

                          It does indeed feel very much like it is an organised and coordinated effort! I’m glad that I'm not the only one that sees it this way. Its insane that so many people remain ignorant, silent and unresponsive to this almost undisguised, organised, war on men and on society by feminism.

                          Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                          Unlike the other things I mentioned, MGTOW is an actual lifestyle not a campaigning method or way of supporting men's rights. The philosophy is simple, it's about exploring how to live life in a red pill reality. I don't like most of the MGTOW youtubers, I don't like their preaching very few do I consider to even have some good points, but it is what it is, men in pain, anger, rejection, some will move past to a real MGTOW lifestyle and no longer feel any need to vent, some won't and will rail against fate and do blue pill moaning, imagining that if they moan loudly and ludicrously enough blue pill will relent and let them be the boss who screws over a fellow man, instead of the man getting betrayed.

                          There is a lot to MGTOW lifestyle but the philosophy is really contained in the name. It's hard to see some youtuber running a moaning MGTOW channel as being a MGTOW, some guy whose desperate for the acknowledgement of his masculinity from random strangers. Real MGTOW channels wouldn't label themselves, in my opinion, they'd be about health, building, crafts, self sufficiency, independence, male activities - doing stuff. Stuff like survival skills, urban or in the wild, or those videos shared about the guy digging out a cavern through concrete just because he wanted to.

                          I think those living MGTOW lifestyle can and do make powerful and strong allies even leading figures in the MHRM. But I would agree, it's not a strategy, MHRM has to achieve proper goals around rights, not invent purified to ridiculousness ideologies of MGTOW as protest. However, I wont discount that the former foreman I was talking about, would have been a lot better off raised with a red pill message and MGTOW mentality. He would have stood a far better chance of withstanding the attack made on him by his wife and boss, and even if he still lost everything, he'd have stood a better chance of recovery. Instead he was just left wondering why blue pill world fucked him over, why when he did everything asked of him did it betray him and blame him. He was long past anger, just left with confusion and strong desire for a few last moments of humanity before dying in a blue pill world too selfish to even give him that.
                          Its incredibly sad that men have been reduced to this level. Its incredibly sad that men have been left with no alternatives but to pursue extremes such as MGTOW. Its incredibly sad that men have been driven to deny themselves their right to a healthy relationship just to be able to survive exploitation at the hands of society. Its incredibly sad that men wind up blaming themselves for their victimisation at the hands of our sexist world.

                          When I hear of men like this man that you mentioned in your comment I don’t see a problem with him but a problem with society. I don't see him as needing to change anything about his conduct. What wrong did this man do in marrying a woman and getting a job for a company both of whom wound up exploiting and abusing him? NOTHING!!!! he did nothing wrong. The problem isn’t with men pursuing marriage. The problem is with sexism in marriage. The problem is adultery being legal. The problem is with society allowing women to exploit, victimise and destroy men with impunity. The focus needs to be on society making the changes not men. Men have a right to marriage. They have a right to healthy relationships with the opposite sex. They should not be denied that right by a society intent on discriminating against them. The blame is not with men. The blame is not with him for getting married. He shouldn’t have to regret getting married. He shouldn’t have to regret doing nothing wrong. The blame is with society and with the woman that married him and the man that slept with her and the society that allowed them abuse and exploit him with impunity.
                          Last edited by Equity; 08-21-2017, 04:09 PM.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Equity View Post
                            "Coordination" that's the word that I was looking for. Thanks Manalysis.
                            Je vous en prie.

                            It does indeed feel very much like it is an organised and coordinated effort!
                            Because it is. Start at the UN Women's Forum, and trace down.

                            Its insane that so many people remain ignorant, silent and unresponsive to this almost undisguised, organised, war on men and on society by feminism.
                            You say that as if you fell people don't have the right to organize. What you should feel is a deep 'cunning envy'.
                            The Fems have simply been doing globally and nationally what females have always been good at: ganging up and running behind-the-scenes cabals.


                            The MHRM has much to learn, and then much catching-up to do.
                            They've simply beat us at the game. What's needed is not to be a sore loser, but to get a grip and get into the game.

                            M

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