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Baltimore Removes "Confederate" Statutes under cover of darkness.

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  • Baltimore Removes "Confederate" Statutes under cover of darkness.

    Confederate statues in Baltimore were removed from their bases overnight by city contractors, who used heavy machinery to load them onto flat bed trucks and haul them away — an abrupt end to more than a year of indecision on what to do with the memorials.
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    Mayor Catherine Pugh, who made the decision Tuesday morning to remove the monuments overnight, watched in person as the four statues linked to the Confederacy were torn from their pedestals.
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    Protesters, who held a rally at the Robert E. Lee-“Stonewall” Jackson Monument at Wyman Park Dell near Johns Hopkins University Sunday, had pledged to tear down that statue themselves Wednesday night if the city didn’t. A group in Durham, N.C., toppled a Confederate statue there on Monday.
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    “It’s done,” Pugh said Wednesday morning. “They needed to come down. My concern is for the safety and security of our people. We moved as quickly as we could. … I did not want to endanger people in my own city.”

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/mar...816-story.html
    This reads like the mob rules to me. It's about safety and security of our people because a bunch of people are going to break the law, so we'll give the people who are threatening to break the law what they want so they don't hurt anybody. I'm not calling people who want statues removed Terrorists, but didn't we used to have a hardline stance where we didn't negotiate with terrorists? Would the same be true of anyone who threatens to break the law to get their way?

    Shouldn't threatening violence cost you the moral high-ground? It used to.
    "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
    "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

  • #2
    Has to be said, state officials using an organised mob to enforce unwanted divisive policy, there's a pretty clear similar case in history:

    Franz von Papen (29 October 1879 – 2 May 1969) was a German nobleman, General Staff officer and politician. He served as Chancellor of Germany in 1932 and as Vice-Chancellor under Adolf Hitler in 1933–34. He belonged to the group of close advisers to President Paul von Hindenburg in the late Weimar Republic. It was largely Papen, believing that Hitler could be controlled once he was in the government, who persuaded Hindenburg to appoint Hitler as Chancellor in a cabinet not under Nazi Party domination. However, Papen and his allies were quickly marginalized by Hitler and he left the government after the Night of the Long Knives, during which some of his confidantes were killed by the Nazis.
    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
    Originally posted by menrppl2
    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't think those who threaten violence should be appeased, but it does raise the issue of whether statues of heroes of the Confederacy should still be on display. Placing the statues in a museum as part of a narrative of American history would be a different matter.
      We have the same issue in Britain, where there are many statues of men who were big in the slave trade during the days of the British Empire. Some want them removed, and I think they should be put somewhere where the statues would be part of a historical context.
      During the American civil war Lancashire mill owners, eager to protect their supply of cheap cotton from the southern US, set up a company to provide aid to the Confederacy. The most notable feature was the building on Merseyside of the mighty warship the Alabama. The building they used in Liverpool as their headquarters, now owned by a college, still has portraits of Confederate generals, though so far there've been no complaints.

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      • #4
        Just to add, those who wanted the statues removed should have made their case to the local authority and the public. Threats of vandalism anger people, and cause further division, while debate makes people think of the views of others.

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        • #5
          The statues aren't the issue. This is about whether a small minority has the right to demand a course of action with threats of violence. When will people learn, you can't appease a bully by complying with their demands.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by cpb View Post
            The statues aren't the issue. This is about whether a small minority has the right to demand a course of action with threats of violence.

            Well, that's the way the 1 % operates. Prisons, courts, police, Pinkerton ... and all paid for by the tax payers

            M

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            • #7
              Actually, if you read about the people the statues are of; you usually find out that they were anti-slavery patriots, like Jackson and Lee, who fought for their own people out of loyalty, duty and patriotism, despite not agreeing with every single thing the south stood for.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by shrek1985 View Post
                Actually, if you read about the people the statues are of; you usually find out that they were anti-slavery patriots, like Jackson and Lee, who fought for their own people out of loyalty, duty and patriotism, despite not agreeing with every single thing the south stood for.
                It was a sensible move to take the boot off the necks of the South after the Civil War and let them restore their identity and choose their iconic heroes. It pretty much stopped further war and strife between North and South.

                These acts to stoke anti-Confederate sentiment is just stoking anti-white sentiment, riling up black nationalists and white nationalists to cause social disintegration and violence in the US.

                This whole modern it's racist is disgraceful. The US Civil War was a massive blood letting on both sides, the forefathers of white people in the US have paid a huge enough blood price for slavery. The problems with racism didn't end quick but the trajectory of the Civil Rights Movement has been one direction towards all being American. Any derailment of that is un-American, and trying to undermine a hard earned peace and national unity.
                "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
                Originally posted by menrppl2
                Can't live with em, life is great without them.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                  It was a sensible move to take the boot off the necks of the South after the Civil War and let them restore their identity and choose their iconic heroes. It pretty much stopped further war and strife between North and South.

                  These acts to stoke anti-Confederate sentiment is just stoking anti-white sentiment, riling up black nationalists and white nationalists to cause social disintegration and violence in the US.

                  This whole modern it's racist is disgraceful. The US Civil War was a massive blood letting on both sides, the forefathers of white people in the US have paid a huge enough blood price for slavery. The problems with racism didn't end quick but the trajectory of the Civil Rights Movement has been one direction towards all being American. Any derailment of that is un-American, and trying to undermine a hard earned peace and national unity.
                  AFAIK, not all black people in the USA were slaves, since slavery wasn't instituted everywhere all the time.
                  But ... was there ever an example of black people in the USA owning slaves?

                  M

                  Edit: Sorry, should have googled first, not after ....

                  http://www.theroot.com/did-black-peo...ves-1790895436
                  Last edited by Manalysis; 09-01-2017, 02:29 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
                    AFAIK, not all black people in the USA were slaves, since slavery wasn't instituted everywhere all the time.
                    But ... was there ever an example of black people in the USA owning slaves?

                    M

                    Edit: Sorry, should have googled first, not after ....

                    http://www.theroot.com/did-black-peo...ves-1790895436
                    Interesting, I've not seen that information. But read the stuff about white slavery, the Atlantic slave trade and the African slave trading tribes.
                    "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
                    Originally posted by menrppl2
                    Can't live with em, life is great without them.

                    Comment

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