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  • Women are not interesting

    This just in: Women are not interesting in movies, in addition to sports.

    ~Edit~

    hah.. the top comment:

    Joe Buffington says:
    March 12, 2014 at 6:02 am

    Black female representation is 14% while they are <7% of the population — sounds like too many.
    _

    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold.

  • #2
    Well, movies are supposed to mirror reality in one way or another, so there you go.
    Could be the reason they're massively over represented and over payed in porn, I guess..

    Comment


    • #3
      As a writer myself, I can tell you that... yes, they aren't. At least, not in general when it comes to female characters.

      Here's the problem: the things that make your audience grow attached to a character are often rooted in how that character deals with adversity and conflict. When the cards are down, how they react to a fateful situation is when they shine their brightest, and as such, the capacity for a character to be interesting is largely just a derivative of what happens to them. They could be the most interesting person in the world, but if nothing happens to them that allows them to showcase those interesting traits, then they're never able to truly express those interesting traits, and you just wind up with someone running around in circles flapping their arms going "LOOK AT ME! I'M INTERESTING! WOO!", which has rather the opposite of intended effect.

      So why does this matter when it comes to female characters?

      Well... here's the big issue: I can beat the shit out of a male character, no problem. I can torture him, put him into horrifying, terrible positions, and I can let him fuck up his life so badly that it's blatantly obvious that all the ills he faces are clearly his own damned fault and he has to clean the mess up after himself.

      I can't do that with a female character.

      Actually, that's not true. *I* can do that with a female character because I'm competent enough of a fiction writer to weave my way around all the things that most people would go berserk over happening to a female character. Your average fiction writer, however, is not capable of tiptoeing through the minefield, so normally just sits in front of it and doesn't even try to enter.

      It's actually our societal hatred for women being harmed that prevents female characters from truly growing into interesting character designs laced with strong growth of personality.

      You can't really have that moment of victory without first facing the dragon, and society goes batshit insane when you dare to put a female character in front of that dragon. As such... no victory, no awesomeness, no epix win get.

      It's not impossible to make a female character interesting by any means, it's just a metric fuckton harder to work with a female character than a male character because of how limited the writer is in what they're "allowed" to do to that female character.

      As such, most female characters suck, because it takes a remarkably higher quality level of writing to portray a convincing character without using any of the stock ammunition used for creating the situations that would let a character showcase how awesome they are. As most writers aren't in the top 20% (kinda by definition...), you simply don't see even a fraction of the same number of female characters that are awesome, unless you go looking for that top 20% or so of writers.

      This is why female characters in shows like Firefly or Babylon 5 are about as epic as they come, but you just flat out don't get the same examples as River Tan or Ivannova in most other shows.

      You can't remove the vast bulk of literary tools someone uses to tell a story with, and then expect that story to be even remotely as good - unless that writer is a master of their art and can work around the limitations. Most writers simply can't pull a female character off convincingly with the noose around their necks. It's really that simple.
      It doesn't matter if they're right; if they can't prove they're right, then they\'re wrong, no matter how right they may be.

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      • #4
        The fact that 93% of work related death are male means men do more of the heroic jobs, Hollywood is over representing women in movies.
        http://www.mensrightshalifax.com/
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        • #5
          I'm so sick and tired of reading stupid articles by idiots who haven't understood that correlation does not imply causation. The stupidity of this article easily rivals all that whining about the wage gap.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Katsuni View Post
            ...It's actually our societal hatred for women being harmed that prevents female characters from truly growing into interesting character designs laced with strong growth of personality...
            Perversely, feminist agitation against any sort of negativity about women is also responsible - at least in part - for the dearth of genuinely good female characters.

            Any portrayal of real moral ambivalence in a female character is met with howls of "misogyny!" from feminist pressure groups. This leads to two dimensional "cookie cutter" stereotypes. There are only a few situations where women behave "badly" in movies;

            1. If she is beating the shit out of a man (to show how incredibly empowered and strong she is). Because everyone knows all men deserve it due to the historical debt we owe these wonderful, long suffering princesses etc..
            2. She was pushed into it by terrible abuse, perpetrated by men of course.
            3. She is a completely evil caricature.

            Audiences have far more difficulty believing that "real" female characters can be imperfect, let alone mundane everyday assholes.

            Even when common shitty female behaviour - such as is found in custody battles - is portrayed on screen, it isn't really done sympathetically from the man's point of view. I don't think we'll be seeing a main stream tear-jerker anytime soon that portrays a man's fight to get his child back off his asshole wife.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by numbCruncher View Post
              Perversely, feminist agitation against any sort of negativity about women is also responsible - at least in part - for the dearth of genuinely good female characters.

              Any portrayal of real moral ambivalence in a female character is met with howls of "misogyny!" from feminist pressure groups. This leads to two dimensional "cookie cutter" stereotypes. There are only a few situations where women behave "badly" in movies;

              1. If she is beating the shit out of a man (to show how incredibly empowered and strong she is). Because everyone knows all men deserve it due to the historical debt we owe these wonderful, long suffering princesses etc..
              2. She was pushed into it by terrible abuse, perpetrated by men of course.
              3. She is a completely evil caricature.

              Audiences have far more difficulty believing that "real" female characters can be imperfect, let alone mundane everyday assholes.

              Even when common shitty female behaviour - such as is found in custody battles - is portrayed on screen, it isn't really done sympathetically from the man's point of view. I don't think we'll be seeing a main stream tear-jerker anytime soon that portrays a man's fight to get his child back off his asshole wife.
              That's because there's a lot of men writing these stories who run our "great free-market system" who think robbing any other man through legal means is just the greatest thing ever.
              "Women are like that they dont acquire knowledge of people we are for that they are just born with a practical fertility of suspicion that makes a crop every so often and usually right they have an affinity for evil for supplying whatever the evil lacks in itself for drawing it about them instinctively as you do bed-clothing in slumber fertilising the mind for it until the evil has served its purpose whether it ever existed or no" - William Faulkner

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Androgen View Post
                That's because there's a lot of men writing these stories who run our "great free-market system" who think robbing any other man through legal means is just the greatest thing ever.
                Possibly these men are trying to rob other men in order to pay alimony / child support / taxes that fund government-backed feminist groups...

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                • #9
                  To get interesting female characters and roles outside Firefly and Babylon 5, you have to go a fair way back into cinematic history or go for some pretty obscure films...I can think of a couple of examples in each of those categories
                  Be still and cool in thine own mind and spirit.
                  George Fox

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by numbCruncher View Post
                    Possibly these men are trying to rob other men in order to pay alimony / child support / taxes that fund government-backed feminist groups...
                    At some point, if you're specializing in family law, you made the decision to exploit and abuse men. "Just following orders" is not an excuse.
                    "Women are like that they dont acquire knowledge of people we are for that they are just born with a practical fertility of suspicion that makes a crop every so often and usually right they have an affinity for evil for supplying whatever the evil lacks in itself for drawing it about them instinctively as you do bed-clothing in slumber fertilising the mind for it until the evil has served its purpose whether it ever existed or no" - William Faulkner

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