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  • 240 heater

    4800 watt, 240 volt heater

    am I good with 20 amp fuse?
    14/2 is for 110, so what wire is good?????
    A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

  • #2
    note to self, if your bros and home depot don't know, don't expect the mra community to.
    A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

    Comment


    • #3
      I believe 12/2 is code for a 20A breaker. The math works, but do you want to run it that close? That is exactly a 20A draw. I know there are already built in safety margins but why run it that close?
      I used to think collapse was inevitable. Now I realize it is necessary.

      It was only a matter of time before the bicycles realized that they in fact did not need the fish.

      Comment


      • #4
        Use 12 gauge wire for 20A. Use 10 gauge for 30A.

        https://www.thespruce.com/matching-w...perage-1152865

        The answer to your question really depends on several variables.

        If you're going to have anything else on the circuit you're going to be unhappy. (Constantly resetting the breaker).

        If the heater has multiple settings you might be okay, but it depends on how it's designed.

        If the heater cycles (goes full-out until some temperature is reached), you'll always being drawing 20A give or take when it's running which means you'll likely be toggling the breaker frequently. If it's always on but produces less heat on lower settings, then it only draws 20A if you put it on highest setting. If you're okay with that you can probably get away with a 20A circuit, as long as you don't put anything else on that circuit and never set it to "high".

        Since it sounds like you have to run wire for this anyway I'd say run 10/2 and put in a 30A breaker. I say that knowing I'd personally get really annoyed if I had to regularly reset the breaker. It would be worth a few extra $$$ to me to avoid that.
        "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
        "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

        Comment


        • #5
          ty actually the heater cord says 12 awg........im thinking it must be made for 12/2 wire and 20 amp, only thing on the circuit.

          if it wasn't for that id go 30 amp, 10/2, but that leaves me an underated cord

          honestly youd think they would make it 4700 watt to save guess work.


          *****hmmmmm..........lookalikes all take 30 amp, fuck it 10/2 and 30 amp it is******

          anyway they are a nice unit to heat a couple hundred square feet shop garage area

          pain in the ass fucking electrical, stupidly rated product, god forsaken freezing climate

          thanks guys
          Last edited by menrppl2; 03-18-2018, 06:13 AM.
          A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

          Comment


          • #6

            but, are you powering it with 240V?

            I thought you guys were all 110V or 120V. ..which would mean that yr current is gonna be close to 1/2 of 20A and yr power will be about 1/2 of 4800W

            the fuse is dependent on many things.
            if its a simple piece of fuse wire then it could conceivably carry the rated current for hours...or days...ffs months

            If its a circuit breaker then maybe for minutes or hours
            depends mostly on temperature....energy and time

            Thing is, the fuse is designed to protect the wiring ... what you really dont want is yr wiring getting hot and burning yr shit down.

            does yr insurance cover that?

            in Aust .. 12 gauge would be about 3 mm.sq which, would be considered to easily carry 20A as long as the wiring wasnt bundled with other wiring or buried in thermal insulation
            Last edited by MatrixTransform; 03-19-2018, 10:02 AM.
            "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

            And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

            "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
            "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

            "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

            Comment


            • #7
              If you are asking about US wiring standards, we mostly use 110, but 220 is found commonly enough in high power applications such as electrical cloths dryers, heaters, welders, etc...

              You won't find any 220 run to standard outlets though. That is all 110. Use of 220 is very often done with dedicated circuits as well.
              I used to think collapse was inevitable. Now I realize it is necessary.

              It was only a matter of time before the bicycles realized that they in fact did not need the fish.

              Comment


              • #8
                ive settled on

                30 amp single pole breaker with 10/2 wire, and checking to see if the 12/2 cord off the unit heats up under heavy use.

                and for my next trick, i'll be turning a pigs ear into a silk purse.
                A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

                Comment


                • #9
                  is the heater connected to 220V .. ie, across 2 phases?
                  or to 110V ... phase to neutral?

                  Its kinda becoming important now because simply increasing the size of yr circuit breaker may lead to the position where there is no longer discrimination among the circuit protective devices (fuses or breakers)

                  if you have a long run of large cable and you develop a fault say, in the heater, you need to be fairly sure that enough energy will pass to trip the breaker in a reasonable amount of time.

                  Most breakers are thermal and magnetic so that they will allow say the rated current to flow for maybe an hour, but a fault current of maybe 5000A should trip the breaker magnetically in 0.01 of a second. ie almost instantaneously

                  What Im getting at is that bigger aint necessarily better

                  Say you house is fed from the street and its like 50meters to the house, and the garage is down the back another 50meters and the heater is wired up with another 50meters of cable, you could conceivably have a fault and the total cable limits the fault current that can flow and it may take a long time to trip yr breaker

                  Even worse, it may not trip and maybe you'll take out an up-stream breaker like the one at yr main switchboard, or worse, the one in the street on the pole.

                  Maybe you plow a shovel through the cable one day because of the Whiskey ... when that happens you want the damn breaker to trip a long time before the shovel vaporizes ...for obvious reasons.

                  The energy let through is equal to current x current x time

                  a big breaker will let through vastly more energy that a small one before it trips

                  A typical C-Class breaker with 5x the rated current will trip somewhere between 2s and 20s ....
                  A typical C-Class breaker with 10x the rated current will trip somewhere between 0.2s and 1s ...

                  so, depending on the level of fault current that could actually flow you may end up with a situation where your breaker doesn't trip letting though vast amounts of energy or, lets through something like 450000 Joules of energy before it does trip ... which, would be bad.
                  Thats probably, at a guess, enough energy to instantly vaporise a litre of water .. something like a big boom!

                  So anyway, if yr powering with 110V then yr 20A breaker would probably be a better selection.
                  If yr powering with 220, then the 30 A breaker would probably be better selection
                  I agree that the cable should be 10 gauge rather than 12 ... the lager cable with have less impedance (resistance) in a fault situation ...which is good.

                  but all this does depend heavily on how the wiring is configured and installed and length and size....the internal resistance of transformer in the street ...and especially ambient temperature

                  Sorry it aint as simple a question as it seems

                  ant it isnt obvious to me whether or not you powering with 110V or 220V ... thats why I ask.

                  normally I would never ever give electrical advice in public forum ... but because this place would be worse without your dumb arse in it, Im kinda concerned.

                  THIS is one of the reasons why you should NOT do yr own electrical

                  ...may your favorite deity rest your poor soul.
                  Last edited by MatrixTransform; 03-20-2018, 09:37 PM.
                  "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                  And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                  "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                  "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                  "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by menrppl2 View Post
                    ive settled on

                    30 amp single pole breaker with 10/2 wire, and checking to see if the 12/2 cord off the unit heats up under heavy use.

                    and for my next trick, i'll be turning a pigs ear into a silk purse.
                    Maaate ... FFS!,

                    if you are connected to 220V then that must be across 2 phases.
                    dont use a single pole breaker, use a double.
                    otherwise a fault on the protected phase will probably trip, but a fault on the other phase would be relying on the up-stream breaker.

                    not the best situation.
                    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      You had better earth that thing ... or I'll fly over there and hammer a screwdriver through your heart with my pliers.
                      "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                      And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                      "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                      "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                      "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        the cord on the heater is two wire.......plus ground

                        I cant say I totally understand electrical theory, but its gotta take a single pole........live and neutral
                        https://www.zoro.com/dimplex-portabl...specifications

                        apparently they come with a 30 amp plug......this one the plugs missing

                        if it needs double pole wouldn't it have a 3 wire cord, plus ground........4 wires in total

                        I found the manual

                        https://www.dimplex.com/cms/publicat...0100R05_EN.pdf

                        customer reviews do say double pole breaker............what you hook black to one, white to the other, and ground to ground and it will work? no neutral needed?

                        the panel is a shop panel with 100A main breaker coming from house 200A service, so I think I have 220


                        I guess what im down to is how do you wire a 2 wire to a double pole breaker?

                        ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        holy shit I just read up................you actually use two hots on dp breaker and ground, there is no neutral!

                        so im doing a dp 30 amp breaker with 10/2 wire, and checking the cord to see if it heats up.

                        cant say I understand it, but I do know how to shut power off, install breakers and wire, so thankyou, I think I got it!

                        I'll wait a day in case im still out to lunch on it.
                        -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                        as payback id like to offer some of my valuable professional advice to yourself........

                        shit runs downhill
                        Last edited by menrppl2; 03-21-2018, 12:27 AM.
                        A man can gain no more respect than by, laying down his life for a woman. And a woman, no more than by, beating down a man. For a man to ask, what is fair and good and true and just, is to offend.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          chuckles..

                          it all depends if your putting 220V or 110V on the heater

                          in a 3 phase system in the US, the voltage between phases would be around 220V and the voltage from each phase to neutral would be around 110V

                          Im guessing but yr house will probably have 1,2, or 3 phases coming into it plus a Neutral and maybe an earth.
                          Typically here in Aust, the earth doesnt com in from the street but the house's earth is connected to neutral and a ground rod is driven into the dirt.

                          If yr heater is connected between 1 phase and neutral, then it will probably only have 120V across it and will consequently only draw about 10Amps and will really be a 2400W heater even though it is rated at 240V and 4800W. It would only need a single circuit breaker and 20A wouldnt be a bad choice though it probably depends on the wire size selected. You have to consult you local wiring code.

                          If your heater is gonna be connected across 2 phases, it will have ~220V across it and will draw close to 20Amps making it about a 4800W heater.
                          But Id suggest it would then need a 2-pole breaker. A pole protecting each phase.
                          There wouldnt be a neutral wire.
                          Just the ground wire
                          ...and you'd need the 30A plug as well as heavier wire and suitably rated socket outlet

                          In either case, all exposed metal of the heater would need to be solidly earthed back to your sub-board, and ultimately back to the main board
                          Last edited by MatrixTransform; 03-21-2018, 01:17 AM.
                          "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                          And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                          "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                          "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                          "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by menrppl2 View Post
                            shit runs downhill
                            ...vapour goes straight to heaven
                            "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                            And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                            "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                            "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                            "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                            Comment

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