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  • #16
    RE: Accountability

    Originally posted by Rog
    Originally posted by LiliM
    While being at home with the kids is a blessing, I personally enjoy working. I am glad I stayed home with them, because they deserved a parent at home. Had I the more lucrative career, DH would have stayed home. It was just a matter of numbers.

    The problem with staying home is that once you are out of the work force for a time, your absence is suspect. I have friends who were UE for over a year (men and women) who had to explain that year gap on their resumes. The job force does not like absences.

    So a short term period of alimony to help the person, male or female, get back on their feet and become meshed into the working world again, if they are not working at the time of divorce, I get.

    But this lifetime shit? Are you fucking kidding me? It's bullshit.

    There needs to be a cap on it, and it needs to stop for ALL recipients at some point, sooner rather than later. I hate the idea that women seem to feel that they are entitled to be paid for having been married and spat out a few kids at some point in their lives.

    Hate to be a bitch, but sheep spit out lotsa kids - it's not rocket science, and most humans do it fairly easily.

    Like most things that were designed to be fair - the person ponying up for the "fair" gets the no vaseline bend over.

    MA awards alimony for life to women married less than 5 years. No wonder DHs ex wants to get married there. Greedy cunt.

    To the argument that a woman's payment for staying home is being with the family - that's true, but the harsh reality is that Joe Employer does not give a fuck about how rewarding it was. Joe Employer wants to know if your skills have gone to shit, can you be counted on to be there, how much training will they have to do to catch you up to speed, and can you even be caught up with having say, 5 years out of your field.

    I took a year off when my second kid was born, and I had to do some CEUs and brush up when I got back to working (I worked out of my house for a number of years). There is a financial cost to being out of the profession.

    So to give the spouse, man or woman, a grace period to get themselves back into the working world, with training to get them up to date on the goings on in their field - that is what alimony should be used for.

    If a spouse is working, then no alimony should be awarded. CS is already used to level the financial playing field in the homes (which is bullshit to me as well, but that's a separate post), there's no need to add alimony on top of it.
    short term alimony has been abused into lifetime alimony
    do you recognize that you gained something from staying home with your kids?(it looks like you do) can it be taken away from you? can the man get back what he missed? then why should he have to pay a woman for this gain and lose out himself at the same time? women should accept that they give up career for family BEFORE they decide to go for family and not use men as slave labor to support them when they choose to leave the relationship and go back to work,, because you know what? the man isnt going to get back all the years his spouse got to stay home and bond with their kids (i still cant believe nobody places more than a passing value on this)

    child support laws have been abused to the point where its standard fare for a woman to "find a donor" and force him to pay, when they were originally supposed to be for i believe not excluding life insurance for children whos fathers wernt married to the mother
    if a law is put in place that has loopholes and financial gain you will find people will make it standard practice to justify those gains..this link refers to the courts holding men responsible for their actions within months of excusing women from them in Roe vs Wade
    http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/roevswades.htm
    I am with you on the CS. My DH was fortunate that he didn't get totally raped from the CS calc...but he made less than the ex, and paid out the ass regardless. The main thing that saved him was that she never requested a mod since she was hiding income as fast as she cashed her CS check, LOL. So i really have no major beef with CS personally - although having seen it abused with so many of my friends, I have major issues with it overall.

    Don't get me started on the "Oops, I'm preggo, I'm keepin it, hand over your money and fuck you on seeing the kid". I think men should have an opt out, just like women do. Forcing someone to be responsible for a decision made by one is not fair. It's what contributes to all these kids growing up with absent dads, and angry moms, and lots of issues. Dad didn't make the choice for the kid to be there in the first place, and mom may be being a bitch...what's to be involved for? I see enough women who feel that since he doesn't pay [undefined=undefined]enough[/undefined], and doesn't jump to her idea of stellar parenting, the PAS and dismissal of dad is rampant. I call it the Newerer Betterer Daddee syndrome. He better not stop that check, though! Gah. Gotta stop, this is a soapbox for me.

    As for alimony, DH and I have discussed this. As a second marriage, with a bitch ex, our stats for success were not high. So after kids, we talked about how we would handle divorce, should it occur (it's not a worry, but we are both realistic). He had no issues with alimony. While he missed out on time with the kids, because I was there, I recorded tons of stuff a daycare provider would not have, was able to share all the little things I knew he would be interested in. Since we have a special needs kid, shit, that first year of DX I would have been fired, I was up at the school so much. He agreed that a year of alimony to help me, were I not working, was fair. Now, it would not be. I am working outside the home. If both parties are making income, alimony is not appropriate.

    We had two choices when we had kids. One was to put the kids into care, thus having both of us miss out. The other was to have one of us give up the career for a time to be there for the kids. Since he made more, that person was me. He has no issue helping me out if needed because my career did take a hit for something that WE decided was best for our family. I was the one who got to make the sacrifice. In the end, I usually do for his career. That was part of our agreement also. So if I needed a year of alimony, he wouldn't begrudge that. Our daycare would have been lots more expensive than a year of alimony, with two small kids, one an infant, LOL. Daycare is a total racket, and you still don't pay what a good provider is truly worth.

    It goes back to the idea that women feel they are "owed" something for having a kid and deigning to be married.

    Whatever. I gained by marrying. So did DH. To us, for us, alimony and CS are compromises. Both of us love the kids, and would love to be with them. Reality is though, my career had more flexibility, and still does. So I take the kid hits via work.

    What I think is interesting is that when a man gets palimony women are outraged. If his spouse made more, and he took the hits career wise for the kids, he deserves it to get back on his feet via his career.

    It just needs to have a stop date. Not easy, when you have states like MA that award it for life.

    Oh! And yes, I totally am glad I stayed home. I would much rather have worked, as I am not truly in love with being a SAHM, but our kids and our family benefited. Life is more chaotic now that both of us work. We believe in being home until school though, because we both had that growing up. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Perhaps would have invested in more wine, though....LOL.

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    • #17
      RE: Accountability

      Originally posted by LiliM
      Originally posted by Rog
      Originally posted by LiliM
      While being at home with the kids is a blessing, I personally enjoy working. I am glad I stayed home with them, because they deserved a parent at home. Had I the more lucrative career, DH would have stayed home. It was just a matter of numbers.

      The problem with staying home is that once you are out of the work force for a time, your absence is suspect. I have friends who were UE for over a year (men and women) who had to explain that year gap on their resumes. The job force does not like absences.

      So a short term period of alimony to help the person, male or female, get back on their feet and become meshed into the working world again, if they are not working at the time of divorce, I get.

      But this lifetime shit? Are you fucking kidding me? It's bullshit.

      There needs to be a cap on it, and it needs to stop for ALL recipients at some point, sooner rather than later. I hate the idea that women seem to feel that they are entitled to be paid for having been married and spat out a few kids at some point in their lives.

      Hate to be a bitch, but sheep spit out lotsa kids - it's not rocket science, and most humans do it fairly easily.

      Like most things that were designed to be fair - the person ponying up for the "fair" gets the no vaseline bend over.

      MA awards alimony for life to women married less than 5 years. No wonder DHs ex wants to get married there. Greedy cunt.

      To the argument that a woman's payment for staying home is being with the family - that's true, but the harsh reality is that Joe Employer does not give a fuck about how rewarding it was. Joe Employer wants to know if your skills have gone to shit, can you be counted on to be there, how much training will they have to do to catch you up to speed, and can you even be caught up with having say, 5 years out of your field.

      I took a year off when my second kid was born, and I had to do some CEUs and brush up when I got back to working (I worked out of my house for a number of years). There is a financial cost to being out of the profession.

      So to give the spouse, man or woman, a grace period to get themselves back into the working world, with training to get them up to date on the goings on in their field - that is what alimony should be used for.

      If a spouse is working, then no alimony should be awarded. CS is already used to level the financial playing field in the homes (which is bullshit to me as well, but that's a separate post), there's no need to add alimony on top of it.
      short term alimony has been abused into lifetime alimony
      do you recognize that you gained something from staying home with your kids?(it looks like you do) can it be taken away from you? can the man get back what he missed? then why should he have to pay a woman for this gain and lose out himself at the same time? women should accept that they give up career for family BEFORE they decide to go for family and not use men as slave labor to support them when they choose to leave the relationship and go back to work,, because you know what? the man isnt going to get back all the years his spouse got to stay home and bond with their kids (i still cant believe nobody places more than a passing value on this)

      child support laws have been abused to the point where its standard fare for a woman to "find a donor" and force him to pay, when they were originally supposed to be for i believe not excluding life insurance for children whos fathers wernt married to the mother
      if a law is put in place that has loopholes and financial gain you will find people will make it standard practice to justify those gains..this link refers to the courts holding men responsible for their actions within months of excusing women from them in Roe vs Wade
      http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/roevswades.htm
      I am with you on the CS. My DH was fortunate that he didn't get totally raped from the CS calc...but he made less than the ex, and paid out the ass regardless. The main thing that saved him was that she never requested a mod since she was hiding income as fast as she cashed her CS check, LOL. So i really have no major beef with CS personally - although having seen it abused with so many of my friends, I have major issues with it overall.

      Don't get me started on the "Oops, I'm preggo, I'm keepin it, hand over your money and fuck you on seeing the kid". I think men should have an opt out, just like women do. Forcing someone to be responsible for a decision made by one is not fair. It's what contributes to all these kids growing up with absent dads, and angry moms, and lots of issues. Dad didn't make the choice for the kid to be there in the first place, and mom may be being a bitch...what's to be involved for? I see enough women who feel that since he doesn't pay [undefined=undefined]enough[/undefined], and doesn't jump to her idea of stellar parenting, the PAS and dismissal of dad is rampant. I call it the Newerer Betterer Daddee syndrome. He better not stop that check, though! Gah. Gotta stop, this is a soapbox for me.

      As for alimony, DH and I have discussed this. As a second marriage, with a bitch ex, our stats for success were not high. So after kids, we talked about how we would handle divorce, should it occur (it's not a worry, but we are both realistic). He had no issues with alimony. While he missed out on time with the kids, because I was there, I recorded tons of stuff a daycare provider would not have, was able to share all the little things I knew he would be interested in. Since we have a special needs kid, shit, that first year of DX I would have been fired, I was up at the school so much. He agreed that a year of alimony to help me, were I not working, was fair. Now, it would not be. I am working outside the home. If both parties are making income, alimony is not appropriate.

      We had two choices when we had kids. One was to put the kids into care, thus having both of us miss out. The other was to have one of us give up the career for a time to be there for the kids. Since he made more, that person was me. He has no issue helping me out if needed because my career did take a hit for something that WE decided was best for our family. I was the one who got to make the sacrifice. In the end, I usually do for his career. That was part of our agreement also. So if I needed a year of alimony, he wouldn't begrudge that. Our daycare would have been lots more expensive than a year of alimony, with two small kids, one an infant, LOL. Daycare is a total racket, and you still don't pay what a good provider is truly worth.

      It goes back to the idea that women feel they are "owed" something for having a kid and deigning to be married.

      Whatever. I gained by marrying. So did DH. To us, for us, alimony and CS are compromises. Both of us love the kids, and would love to be with them. Reality is though, my career had more flexibility, and still does. So I take the kid hits via work.

      What I think is interesting is that when a man gets palimony women are outraged. If his spouse made more, and he took the hits career wise for the kids, he deserves it to get back on his feet via his career.

      It just needs to have a stop date. Not easy, when you have states like MA that award it for life.

      Oh! And yes, I totally am glad I stayed home. I would much rather have worked, as I am not truly in love with being a SAHM, but our kids and our family benefited. Life is more chaotic now that both of us work. We believe in being home until school though, because we both had that growing up. I wouldn't trade it for anything. Perhaps would have invested in more wine, though....LOL.
      most of this even i would agree to
      because you BOTH agreed to it ahead of time
      i would never say that having a parent stay at home is a bad choice when its spent properly (i know many women who are SAHM because they want to home school knowing what the schools are like for their boys, and this above all is valued by me when it comes to moms who stay at home)
      and you noted that you made notes of your day? ok yes if i was that dad and i had stuff like that to come home to and felt included in the family i was breaking myself for?holy shit thats a different attitude than the one im used to seeing from women.

      im certain(yes only my opinion)that given reasonable choices about alimony and child support most of the dads who were included the way you include your DH would step up and fulfill their responsibilities as any normal human being would, but when the crazy entitlement is being taught to be strong in todays women the way that it currently is how is a normal man supposed to trust any woman to be moral and sane when its time to split up??
      you said yourself that moral fraud and entitlement runs rampant in the women you know or at least you see it enough to know that its there,, let me tell you something tho many women accept this from other women because they are the same way and at the same time women are experts at hiding this from men.

      but my real question is when will the Government take action to enforce agreements made by women who decided to step up in the first place?
      pre co habitation agreement enforcement?
      pre child support agreement? why is it that in the best interests of the child only applies to men and isnt a universally enforceable thing?

      recognize that you got something from staying at home is good but you should also recognize that your DH worked all that much harder to provide for you not working AND the child you ultimately made the decision yourself to have, since men dont get a say at all in that legally,, that you and he worked out something agreeable is absolutely great but i dont have the opinion its something women are entitled to at all unless agreed to ahead of time as equals(not possible with the current laws in place forcing otherwise and men having 0 say in it)
      The only thing that resembles "The Patriarchy" these days is Feminism itself.

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