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  • Women = Witches?

    I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but I don't particularly care.

    I read a good lot of what everyone posts. I follow discussions and arguments, and look at things from as unbiased a position as I can. I read your replies to what I have to say, explain myself and come out the other end with a better understanding of a particular issue. It's a fascinating, bizarre and difficult experience, this "red pill" , and I do indeed feel more enlightened because of it.

    One thing bugs me. The anger and it's direction. Now, let me clarify. I understand that there is a good deal of anger here. Why else would people come here if not from hurt? This movement in and of itself is rooted in pain, pain that has come together into action to do something about it. But it is a double edged sword, and it is showing. I understood that coming here, I would be looked at with a more cautious and critical eye being a girl. I'm fine with that. I'm not a push over, I can take criticism. But what is starting to rustle my feathers is the generality. "Women are BLANK." And that blank is very often a bad thing...sometimes, very bad. Whether it be greedy, manipulative, cruel, self centered, group-think or what have you, it is shot in the direction of all of us. And that makes you sound no better than the feminists you so dislike. I know you are better then that, be think of this; it is debated how innocent the beginnings of feminism was, but let us look at the basic idea. There was anger and hurt, and that motivated them to actions. That anger, hurt, with a big helping of corruption, has turned feminism into the hulking mass of hysteria and damage it is today.

    "Men are BLANK" Rapey, pigs, thoughtless, monsters, what have you.

    "Women are BLANK." Greedy, manipulative, cruel, self centered, group-think or what have you.

    See how similar they are? The scope is obviously different; one is more subtle and a stab in the night, while another is more aggressive and violent(the accusations, I mean, not the men or women).

    I get that many of you have had negative experience after negative experience, but I'm sure women on the other end have had a similar go of it. Some may say "Oh, but they have the support!" And granted, you're likely right, but that doesn't make the pain any better or worse. It is the AFTERMATH that is different, not necessarily the experience itself.

    Granted, this is indeed not all of you. In fact, I think that this is directed at a minority of you. I know several of you are happily married, or at least in healthy long term relationships. I know another good many of you are NOT in relationships, and that's OK too. But the mindset that a few of you have is the same that was up on the podium preaching at Women's Studies and frankly, it disturbs and saddens me. I do not want bitterness to cause you to see half of the human race as witches out to get you, because we aren't, just as I know you aren't women hitting rapists. There are bad PEOPLE out there, some women and some men. Sadly, society and culture push ideals that cause some of the bad to thrive when it should be stamped out, see the slap on the wrist punishment women get and lies that some tell to police on a frankly, HORRIFIC high frequency. Things do need to change, but in order for that to happen, some attitudes need to change as well.
    "Not all with tits are twisted." -Me

  • #2
    RWBY is Legend. Honey Badgers

    Women Against Feminism.

    Logic trumps ignorance, but emotion retards edification.

    Comment


    • #3
      RWBY is Legend. Honey Badgers

      Women Against Feminism.

      Logic trumps ignorance, but emotion retards edification.

      Comment


      • #4
        I don't have my gun anymore. I don't need it nor do I want it. I know I am NOT the only one. I cannot deny that there are many who hold the gun in the room, those being women, but there are also the women who don't hold the gun. My request is merely to understand that to generalize is to denounce even those who do NOT meet the qualities used to describe them, as written above and among the site.

        That is a wonderful video, Shad. I do understand your stance, hence why I prefaced by saying that I understand the issues present and why there is such hurt. I do get that; you have my sympathy, but sadly not my empathy, as I, being a woman, have not been in that spot. But I do know that generalizations can be dangerous and hurtful, and hence my post. Is that agreeable?
        "Not all with tits are twisted." -Me

        Comment


        • #5
          You may not want or need the gun, you may be against the people who put the gun in your hands, and you may be adamant that you will never use the gun under any circumstances whatsoever, but simply by being a woman, you have the gun. You may never feel the urge, but you can falsely accuse any man you come into contact with of sexual or physical assault and have the police abuse him at your beck and call. You can sexually and physically abuse any man who becomes your romantic partner with impunity. And you can destroy any man who decides to marry you or manipulate him to do as you wish with the threat of taking finance and family from him. At the end of the day, no matter what you want or think, you have a loaded gun pointed at every man who comes into contact with you, and you can never remove that power from yourself.

          That is the basis for why there is a difference between asshole women and asshole men.

          If a man is a rapey pig, his ass goes to jail. If a man is a wife beater, jail. Sexual harasser, jail. Stalker, jail.

          If a woman is a husband beater, rapist, sexual harasser, or stalker, no one gives a shit. Most well-known statistics don't count men who are abused as victims, government statistics don't acknowledge men who are raped as actual rape victims, and I dare you to try and get anyone outside the MRM to take male victims of stalking or sexual harassment seriously. Throw into the mix that the state of any nation practically sponsors an asshole woman's greed, entitlement, selfishness, and overall toxic nature, and I'm sure you'll get the picture I'm trying to paint.

          If a man is an asshole, there are either social or legal ramifications for what he does. If a woman is an asshole, her actions are permitted, if not encouraged. In that context, it's easy to see why one kind of asshole is worse than the other.

          Comment


          • #6
            Alright, let me try to clarify the vitriolic anger you see. The "blue pill" is the dominant ideology; that is traditionalism, and feminism is traditionalism on crack. So when you see anger, it has a LOT to do with how we ourselves fostered the blue pill, and we did it happily. So let's look at what we created...

            Women -
            don't have mental issues
            if they DO have mental issues, they're excused for any number of reasons, but generally boil down to vagina feelz have been hurt at some point in life (it's not her fault she's a fuck up); and she get's a free pass on just about anything but the most OUTRAGEOUS crimes, if she happens to have kids, more so if she's a single mother.
            they face little in the way of penalties, for crimes she commits, and can easily claim insanity; and still keep her kids
            they can abuse men in public with no reprecussion
            they can neglect and/or abuse their kids, with no reprecussion cuzz, "it's sooooo haaaaarrrrrrrd!!!"
            I could go on, but it's suffice to say, women have no boundries; and we've actively helped dismantle the boundries they had.

            In contrast... Men -
            are a mental issue
            all male issues are best solved with prison
            have no marital or paternal rights (university law professor Elizabeth Sheehy wants to make it legal for "battered" wives to kill their "abusive" husbands). When no-fault divorce was implemented, divorces skyrocketed; put two and two together.

            I don't care how logical you may or may not be, you don't represent women; women, represent women, and thus far, women are emotional wrecks looking for their next great joyride. By necessity of survival, we've infantilized women; feminism is just legislating what we've already done, and EVERYBODY wants us to respect women. It's the equivalent of claiming my 7yo is a perfectly good driver, and giving her the keys to registered mint-condition classic is a fine idea. Yes, we're angry, you gawd damn fucking right we're angry, we're the only one's demanding that women GROW THE FUCK UP!!! Earn the respect; but no, women get shit college degrees (that are "fulfilling") on government dime (men's dime), then live off of minimum wage jobs (or try to) or welfare (especially if they have kids; again, men's dime), and demand we give them respect, hell, most of the "good" jobs women get, happen to be in the social services, so they're still living off of men's taxes, often doing jobs they could have done in a relaxed environment as married mothers.

            There is no disconnect; only awareness. And yes, we're fully aware of the fine line we walk.
            Last edited by Shadizar; 06-20-2014, 06:50 AM.
            RWBY is Legend. Honey Badgers

            Women Against Feminism.

            Logic trumps ignorance, but emotion retards edification.

            Comment


            • #7
              Typical.

              This is why I don't particularly care for the company of "FEMras" nor women who claimed to be "anti feminists" because a sizable portion of them are only in it to cover their asses from any backlash in the foreseeable future. They are merely faking!

              First comes the NAWALT excuses, then the push to flat out censor men who've been jolly stomped, castrated in divorce court and frog marched to prison on a perjury claim.

              This pathetic stunt was pulled on the "AM" forum. A certain feminist troll started out by playing nice and trying to win over MRAs with kind, sympathetic words.
              It worked for awhile until the trollop showed her true colors and started pushing to silence any man for pointing the ugly fact that most of the child abusers and instigators of domestic violence were women!
              The forum moderators managed to get rid of the psychopath but her stunts have often been repeated by women who've wormed their way into the men's movement claiming to support MRAs/ MGTOWS.

              Do not talked to me about anger when trollops can freely steal from their husbands, beat the shit out of their children then joke about it on Facebook without getting arrested.
              Last edited by Zuberi; 06-20-2014, 06:26 AM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by KikiSpaghetti View Post
                Granted, this is indeed not all of you. In fact, I think that this is directed at a minority of you. I know several of you are happily married, or at least in healthy long term relationships. I know another good many of you are NOT in relationships, and that's OK too.
                I am not sure why but this made me feel marginalized. It is not good it is only ok that some of us are not in relationships. It felt like a weak slap of shame that I have decided for my mental , physical and spiritual health to not date. You can see the emphasis in your writing. the very words. The word not is capitalized why to draw our attention there. The word ok again is fully capitalized to draw our attention there. These are not minor things of writing but the very essence of attack language.

                That was an attack even if subconscious you used a sentence, that was a minor subconscious mental attack. There is few mental gymnastics one can claim when you can at any time edit it to remove them but it is too late once it has been noted.

                This is my thoughts of what I draw from those two sentences above. I don't claim to be right but I claim this is how I see it.

                Some Men that are married and have healthy long term relationships are the few good men around here.
                Some men that do not are only ok.We are not good men and we are deserving of less stature than the good men.
                Yes I see shame from your use of language because you made the sentence. You choose to capitalize those words.
                You choose to try and shame me till my rational mind said wait stop read it again and again till you saw how it was written.
                You can feel the accusatory finger of pointing there.
                The sentence in question with action
                I know another good many of you are NOT*points finger of shame* in relationships, and that's OK*said condescendingly* too.

                I am not trying to shame you just pointing out how you may have hurt any message you are trying to bring across due to the fact I lost all sense of caring after that sentence mentally assaulted me. I did read your message in full but those sentences seem to weaken your position.You are the one who brought up our relationships in this thread not us.
                Last edited by Delyun; 06-20-2014, 06:42 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  RWBY is Legend. Honey Badgers

                  Women Against Feminism.

                  Logic trumps ignorance, but emotion retards edification.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by KikiSpaghetti View Post
                    I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but I don't particularly care.

                    I read a good lot of what everyone posts. I follow discussions and arguments, and look at things from as unbiased a position as I can. I read your replies to what I have to say, explain myself and come out the other end with a better understanding of a particular issue. It's a fascinating, bizarre and difficult experience, this "red pill" , and I do indeed feel more enlightened because of it.

                    One thing bugs me. The anger and it's direction. Now, let me clarify. I understand that there is a good deal of anger here. Why else would people come here if not from hurt? This movement in and of itself is rooted in pain, pain that has come together into action to do something about it. But it is a double edged sword, and it is showing. I understood that coming here, I would be looked at with a more cautious and critical eye being a girl. I'm fine with that. I'm not a push over, I can take criticism. But what is starting to rustle my feathers is the generality. "Women are BLANK." And that blank is very often a bad thing...sometimes, very bad. Whether it be greedy, manipulative, cruel, self centered, group-think or what have you, it is shot in the direction of all of us. And that makes you sound no better than the feminists you so dislike. I know you are better then that, be think of this; it is debated how innocent the beginnings of feminism was, but let us look at the basic idea. There was anger and hurt, and that motivated them to actions. That anger, hurt, with a big helping of corruption, has turned feminism into the hulking mass of hysteria and damage it is today.

                    "Men are BLANK" Rapey, pigs, thoughtless, monsters, what have you.

                    "Women are BLANK." Greedy, manipulative, cruel, self centered, group-think or what have you.

                    See how similar they are? The scope is obviously different; one is more subtle and a stab in the night, while another is more aggressive and violent(the accusations, I mean, not the men or women).

                    I get that many of you have had negative experience after negative experience, but I'm sure women on the other end have had a similar go of it. Some may say "Oh, but they have the support!" And granted, you're likely right, but that doesn't make the pain any better or worse. It is the AFTERMATH that is different, not necessarily the experience itself.

                    Granted, this is indeed not all of you. In fact, I think that this is directed at a minority of you. I know several of you are happily married, or at least in healthy long term relationships. I know another good many of you are NOT in relationships, and that's OK too. But the mindset that a few of you have is the same that was up on the podium preaching at Women's Studies and frankly, it disturbs and saddens me. I do not want bitterness to cause you to see half of the human race as witches out to get you, because we aren't, just as I know you aren't women hitting rapists. There are bad PEOPLE out there, some women and some men. Sadly, society and culture push ideals that cause some of the bad to thrive when it should be stamped out, see the slap on the wrist punishment women get and lies that some tell to police on a frankly, HORRIFIC high frequency. Things do need to change, but in order for that to happen, some attitudes need to change as well.
                    Don't take this the wrong way, but if you think your forum tactics are unique, or this post specifically is unique, you're dead wrong. I've seen it from a large percentage of the new women who come in with an explosion of posts on the forum then disappear after a few weeks. First they're all enthusiastic about men's rights and bridging the gender divide, but they have some "concern troll" issues with tone or attitude. Then the enthusiasm fades and the talk about men's rights gives away to more and more concern troll posts about tone or attitude. Until usually we get to the point where they're openly calling out the forum in general and employing shaming and silencing tactics.

                    So I'm glad you think you have something to offer, and I certainly hope you feel like you have more to learn. And to be honest whether you stay or go doesn't make much difference to me. But it's important to be honest with yourself as much as with others, so answer me this: Why are you here and what do you hope to accomplish?

                    Also, and this is more to concern troll posters in general...it's insulting when AVfM forumgoers are all labeled as bitter woman haters who experienced some evil by that "minority" of bad women and became misogynists who just log on to bash women. I admit I have issues of trust and opening up when it comes to women. I also have women I dearly love in my life, and even the women who've caused me trouble I do my best to have a good relationship with. I could be better about avoiding generalizations when posting, but I try to look at people's actions for my judgment calls. When those actions are repeated by enough people I start anticipating them and don't find them surprising, but I don't change how I regard people until I've seen their behavior.
                    Last edited by Nateyj11; 06-20-2014, 07:57 AM.
                    Disillusionment: Another word for reality.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by KikiSpaghetti View Post
                      I'm probably going to get some flack for this, but I don't particularly care.

                      I read a good lot of what everyone posts. I follow discussions and arguments, and look at things from as unbiased a position as I can. I read your replies to what I have to say, explain myself and come out the other end with a better understanding of a particular issue. It's a fascinating, bizarre and difficult experience, this "red pill" , and I do indeed feel more enlightened because of it.

                      One thing bugs me. The anger and it's direction. Now, let me clarify. I understand that there is a good deal of anger here. Why else would people come here if not from hurt? This movement in and of itself is rooted in pain, pain that has come together into action to do something about it. But it is a double edged sword, and it is showing. I understood that coming here, I would be looked at with a more cautious and critical eye being a girl. I'm fine with that. I'm not a push over, I can take criticism. But what is starting to rustle my feathers is the generality. "Women are BLANK." And that blank is very often a bad thing...sometimes, very bad. Whether it be greedy, manipulative, cruel, self centered, group-think or what have you, it is shot in the direction of all of us. And that makes you sound no better than the feminists you so dislike. I know you are better then that, be think of this; it is debated how innocent the beginnings of feminism was, but let us look at the basic idea. There was anger and hurt, and that motivated them to actions. That anger, hurt, with a big helping of corruption, has turned feminism into the hulking mass of hysteria and damage it is today.

                      "Men are BLANK" Rapey, pigs, thoughtless, monsters, what have you.

                      "Women are BLANK." Greedy, manipulative, cruel, self centered, group-think or what have you.

                      See how similar they are? The scope is obviously different; one is more subtle and a stab in the night, while another is more aggressive and violent(the accusations, I mean, not the men or women).

                      I get that many of you have had negative experience after negative experience, but I'm sure women on the other end have had a similar go of it. Some may say "Oh, but they have the support!" And granted, you're likely right, but that doesn't make the pain any better or worse. It is the AFTERMATH that is different, not necessarily the experience itself.

                      Granted, this is indeed not all of you. In fact, I think that this is directed at a minority of you. I know several of you are happily married, or at least in healthy long term relationships. I know another good many of you are NOT in relationships, and that's OK too. But the mindset that a few of you have is the same that was up on the podium preaching at Women's Studies and frankly, it disturbs and saddens me. I do not want bitterness to cause you to see half of the human race as witches out to get you, because we aren't, just as I know you aren't women hitting rapists. There are bad PEOPLE out there, some women and some men. Sadly, society and culture push ideals that cause some of the bad to thrive when it should be stamped out, see the slap on the wrist punishment women get and lies that some tell to police on a frankly, HORRIFIC high frequency. Things do need to change, but in order for that to happen, some attitudes need to change as well.
                      I for one am pretty new here, but I feel good about what you've written. Because I agree: I think the most major problem with modern feminism is that it generalizes. It's about #yesallwomen are afraid of all men, and #notallmen is invalid because #yesallwomen have reason be to terrified of men, and if you're a man, you're part of the problem.

                      And no, I don't think the solution to over-generalization is counter-generalization. I don't think the answer to "men are pigs" is "women are bitches." I absolutely agree with you that generality is a problem, and that an important thing to remember is that people are individuals. That just as there there's more diversity within races than between them, there's more diversity within the sexes than between them.

                      I'm here because I don't like being thought of as "men." I'm not a cog in a vast 3-billion plus person machine that is "men." I don't like being told that all men are terrifying or that all men are privileged. Both of those assertions are bullshit.

                      But do I have anything against women? Of course not. Absolutely not. And I'm well aware that for every "myself" there is, who looks at the dominant ideology and scoffs and goes my own way, there's a woman somewhere who's doing exactly the same thing.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Trust is a damned funny concept...at what point did we get to where men need to earn trust and women are simply trustworthy. Maybe the discussion needs to address this.

                        Kiki, I would suggest your focus is on the wrong things when interacting with these guys. It becomes real clear when someone is simply a man hater or gets defensive and tries to correct. Sit back and try not to take anything here personally. You are on a men's forum and some of these guys have been through the ringer. Let them vent and call things as they see them, attitudes are simply a passing emotion and not an indicator of what comes out in the end.

                        From me to you, my wish is for this forum to not to have to exist. More specifically, the need to exist, and that all of us regardless of gender find happiness with each other whether we choose to be single or bond in relationships.

                        There is a broader attack on men and yes Feminist are part of the problem, but another greater part that sometimes gets glossed over is the politics. You can bash your head against the wall trying to address the anger or you can put yourself above the emotions of the moment and help us work on the broader issues facing men and boys. Does that mean you need to appreciate everything said, no. What it does mean is you see it for what it is, a frustration and work on finding the root cause of our gendered disconnect.
                        Last edited by Grumpy Old Man; 06-20-2014, 08:14 AM.
                        ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
                        virtue of character--practical/ethical wisdom--human flourishing

                        It is not a battle to win but an attitude to share.
                        AVFM Mission Statement
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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KikiSpaghetti View Post
                          I get that many of you have had negative experience after negative experience, but I'm sure women on the other end have had a similar go of it. Some may say "Oh, but they have the support!" And granted, you're likely right, but that doesn't make the pain any better or worse. It is the AFTERMATH that is different, not necessarily the experience itself.
                          1) "likely right" - it's a fact women have significantly more support for all manner of issues. Even government sites reflect this. Mental issues, suicide, work, health etc... there is so more help. Please read

                          2) Support is needed to help a person get through the aftermath. Again this is woefully lacking for men. Even you can see that.

                          3) You right that women have had bad experiences at the hands of men. No one here is going to challenge that. It's the over-whelming double-standard that been put out there. Women suffer, lets fix it - Men suffer - lets laugh. It's not about playing the victim card, it's about being treated right when things go wrong. Women have a very solid infrastructure in place for them, men do not.

                          Come on Kiki........
                          Stop slavery - don't marry.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Kiki, It doesn't take a rocket scientist to be able to see that your OP was directed at ME, as well as a few others. You'll probably deny that you have a distain for my words specifically and you are going to hide behind your MINI GENERALIZATION TACTICS (the irony here, if you cannot see it is your rant is about angry men generalizing, in a mini generalizing way, pot meet kettle). You got a problem with ME, or anyone else specifically, take ME to task, don't throw out this blanket statement of shame, and try to hide behind it like a shield.

                            In fact this is a tactic that is used on MEN by WOMEN and the GOVERNMENT. This is why all women must be protected by the government, a few bad men fucked it up for the rest of us. Oh sounds like I'm blaming the men here doesn't it? Well I hear those words all the time from good manjina men who've been put through the ringer. No in fact it's women whom hold the only license to generalize and ALL men suffer because a few bad men did something wrong to women.

                            Do you get it? Really internalize it.

                            BTW, rightous anger is NOT bad anger. Being mad in and of itself is not wrong, as long as your anger is directed at the wrong. Well, you could say, I didn't create the system, so don't blame me. again NO, I can blame you, simply because you are female and you haven't done anything to speak out against the injustices. Silence does bear culpability. "If your not with us, your against us".

                            This is what I really like about GWW, Dr. T, and others. You NEVER see them coming on here and trying to pull back our reigns. They are comfortable enough in who they are to KNOW they aren't "one of those women". Which sadly, you are not proving to be that type.

                            This is at least the second time you've come on here and tried to control us, this time with shame. And quite frankly, it pisses me off. You ARE turning into EXACTLY "one of those women".

                            Now you can be all butt hurt about it and do whatever it is you'll do to retaliate (probably covertly, as such is the OP), or you can take me on specifically about what you don't like, we can communicate like adults and get our points across without the shield of the broad brush your trying to hide behind.

                            Your choice.
                            Ephesians 5 "Husbands, Love your wives like Christ loved the Church". (Wives, give your husbands something to love).
                            "Wives, RESPECT your husbands". (Husbands, give your wives something to respect.)

                            For a man does not truly feel loved unless his wife, mother, and children display respect to him.

                            "From each MAN according to his abilty, to each WOMAN according to her need"... Allison Tienemann

                            "Feminism is a HATE group... Feminists are HATEFUL people"... Mr. e

                            "In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem."... Ronald Reagan

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              So... a pan-global group of gynocentrists are saying ALL MEN MUST DIE (while their moderates say 'no just enslaved'), and we're a tiny forum saying all women are either lazy or crazy, and we're who you think needs correcting?

                              I think the combination of your cowardice and desire to feel like a good person are making a complete ass of you.
                              Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

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