Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Men as Protectors

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Men as Protectors

    Hey guys, writing an article right now and its almost finished but there is one section I could use some help with. It has to do with man's protective nature. I'm trying to dispel the notion that some feminists maintain, that the only relationship that can exist between men and women is that of the oppressor vs. the oppressed. I'm looking for quotes by military officers, heroes, cultural proverbs, or even from women, about how men are the protectors of their women and their families when they fight at war. It's something that gets talked about a lot but looking for actual quotes about it is not something you can easily google. Sources would be super helpful.

    The only two things I have gathered are how the old Germanic tribes during the medieval times used to have their woman watch from hills afar while their men went to battle, and this would inspire the warriors to fight more valiantly. I read this a couple different places, but can't find it again anywhere (internet searches about "war" and "germany" only turn up stories about nazi's). I reluctant to write this in the essay without a source because I don't want to screw it up and get something wrong, and that would not look good.

    The other is a series of quotes I have from Steven Pressfields book "the warrior ethos," with how Spartan mothers viewed war and the role of men as soldiers. Other than that, I'm pretty dry. I've posted this up on some military history forums, but since I plan on submitting this to AVfM i might as well try here too.

    Thanks for all you help

  • #2
    instead of searching for germans..search for vikings.. or scotts. cause thats the era you're talking about.
    Originally posted by MatrixTransform
    where were you before you put yourself last?
    Originally posted by TheNarrator
    Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

    Comment


    • #3
      This isn't what you're looking for but I was wondering if you've heard it before:

      "When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains, and the women come out to cut up what remains, jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains and go to your gawd like a soldier."

      Rudyard Kipling

      http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/qu...kip152251.html
      "The truth is sometimes a poor competitor in the market of ideas" George F. Kennan

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Travis-Scott View Post
        Hey guys, writing an article right now and its almost finished but there is one section I could use some help with. It has to do with man's protective nature. I'm trying to dispel the notion that some feminists maintain, that the only relationship that can exist between men and women is that of the oppressor vs. the oppressed.
        You should look into "the female imperative". Women are vital to any tribe, as they provide the tribe's future generation. This may lead to a "protected" status, but that status does not necessarily translate into any favourite position in society; it's fairly similar with a rancher and his cattle.
        I believe you will find many, many examples of individual men going to extraordinary lengths to protect the ones they love. The most extreme case that springs to mind is the guy who defended his gf/wife when she tried to hire a contract killer to murder him. Many men are very deeply committed to the relationships they are in.

        I'm looking for quotes by military officers, heroes, cultural proverbs, or even from women, about how men are the protectors of their women and their families when they fight at war.
        In earlier, more primitive, "barbarian" times, the death toll on civilians was far lower than in modern, more "advanced" times. The ratio of civilians to soldiers killed has been steadily rising, hitting a new high(/low) in WWII, IIRC. Not sure about Sudan (etc. etc. etc.), though.

        It's something that gets talked about a lot but looking for actual quotes about it is not something you can easily google. Sources would be super helpful.
        The only two things I have gathered are how the old Germanic tribes during the medieval times used to have their woman watch from hills afar while their men went to battle, and this would inspire the warriors to fight more valiantly. I read this a couple different places, but can't find it again anywhere (internet searches about "war" and "germany" only turn up stories about nazi's). I reluctant to write this in the essay without a source because I don't want to screw it up and get something wrong, and that would not look good.
        'Hills' ...?
        They were right behind their men, sometimes baring their bodies to raise morale ... That would be the Celts, IIRC.
        For the Germans, you'll find something in book 8 of Tacitus' "Germania":
        http://ancienthistory.about.com/od/e...s_Germania.htm

        The other is a series of quotes I have from Steven Pressfields book "the warrior ethos," with how Spartan mothers viewed war and the role of men as soldiers.
        Sparta is so different - and so much a society no one should want to emulate - that it makes for a difficult example.
        Look at medieval Germany, and you'll find more suitable material. (I reccommend a breakdown on region/period, anyway)
        I'm going to be lazy and just refer you to the Wiki version of the political history of peace:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensor_pacis
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peace_and_Truce_of_God
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landfrieden
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ewiger_Landfriede
        As to the norse, if you can bother to google translate this, it relates to the medieval "womens-peace" laws of Sweden:
        https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kvinnofrid

        This may have common Indo roots: "Among pagan faiths, worship of personified Peace was organized in antiquity under the name Eirene ("Peace") in Greek-speaking areas and as Pax ("Peace") in Latin-speaking ones. Her idols depicted a full-grown woman, usually with a horn of plenty and scepter and sometimes with a torch or olive leaves."

        HTH.

        M

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks for all this guys, this is a big help!

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi, I don't know if you already made your article, Maybe this numbers can help you show the sacrifices men made when protecting women:

            http://www.icyousee.org/titanic.html

            Comment


            • #7
              Hmmm, this is a complicated question, and it kind of winds its way in and around what either the MRM and feminism would like to promote.

              First, start with the Iliad; Helen was representative of women, in general, and stealing women from your neighbors was a long-standing tradition. See the Rape of the Sabines.

              The Classical Greeks, on the other hand, had a rather odd relationship with their women. Wives were for children; for companionship, even sex, you turned to other men (or boys...). Still, Greek mothers told their sons, "Come back with your shield, or on it," (win or die), and would openly rejoice if they were killed in battle.

              Rome, of course, spanned these periods and more (~750 B.C. - 1453 A.D.), from the Sabine women (cliff notes: The women decided to stay in Rome) to the Matriarchs (the wives of the heads of the Patrician families; they were the ones responsible for the fall of the Republic when they supported Augustus, after he promised to punish adultery and wife-beating) to the mothers of several emperors who either killed or conspired to kill their own sons (most notably Heliogabalus, who was murdered by his own mother for trying to change the state religion), to the remarkably powerful Byzantine Empresses (Theodora was considered coregent with her husband).

              Western Europe, by this point, had been overrun by Germans: Goths, Franks, Vandals, etc, whose attitude towards women was every bit as sexist as the most fervent feminist could dream of. But then, they didn't really respect other men, all that much, either, so.... /shrug

              The big change for them came during the Crusades. Eleanor of Aquitaine introduced the concept of Chivalry, largely adapted from Moorish (Muslim) attitudes towards women, which were, at the time, far more progressive than anything in Europe. Her sons, of course, became the rulers of half of modern-day France, England, and parts of Spain and Germany, spreading the idea across Western Europe.

              And that's basically the attitude that we have inherited: A combination of a duty to protect women, but also to defer to and cater to them. Well, as I've shown, things change, and if modern women don't like the arrangement we've inherited, then absolutely, let's change it: No more catering to women, no more deference, no more preference - if they want equality, then let's give it them. Give them whatever rights they don't have (if anyone can think of any...) and take away the privileges they've enjoyed for 800 years.

              Sold.

              Comment


              • #8
                Rome is burning .. .. ..
                After being pounded by the gynoentric collective over the last 40 years, listening to women scream for equality and scream they can do anything a man can, then give it to them, their past privileges are gone, all of us that frequent this AVFM forum know what's happening in society, as far as I am concerned they don't deserve protection any longer, they can protect themselves.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Karlo View Post
                  Rome is burning .. .. ..
                  After being pounded by the gynoentric collective over the last 40 years, listening to women scream for equality and scream they can do anything a man can, then give it to them, their past privileges are gone, all of us that frequent this AVFM forum know what's happening in society, as far as I am concerned they don't deserve protection any longer, they can protect themselves.
                  But...feminists don't really mean equality, as in equal in responsibility. They only mean equal, as in rights and those often turn out to be... entitlements.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by StrongSilentType View Post
                    Hmmm, this is a complicated question, and it kind of winds its way in and around what either the MRM and feminism would like to promote.

                    First, start with the Iliad; Helen was representative of women, in general, and stealing women from your neighbors was a long-standing tradition. See the Rape of the Sabines.

                    The Classical Greeks, on the other hand, had a rather odd relationship with their women. Wives were for children; for companionship, even sex, you turned to other men (or boys...). Still, Greek mothers told their sons, "Come back with your shield, or on it," (win or die), and would openly rejoice if they were killed in battle.

                    Rome, of course, spanned these periods and more (~750 B.C. - 1453 A.D.), from the Sabine women (cliff notes: The women decided to stay in Rome) to the Matriarchs (the wives of the heads of the Patrician families; they were the ones responsible for the fall of the Republic when they supported Augustus, after he promised to punish adultery and wife-beating) to the mothers of several emperors who either killed or conspired to kill their own sons (most notably Heliogabalus, who was murdered by his own mother for trying to change the state religion), to the remarkably powerful Byzantine Empresses (Theodora was considered coregent with her husband).

                    Western Europe, by this point, had been overrun by Germans: Goths, Franks, Vandals, etc, whose attitude towards women was every bit as sexist as the most fervent feminist could dream of. But then, they didn't really respect other men, all that much, either, so.... /shrug

                    The big change for them came during the Crusades. Eleanor of Aquitaine introduced the concept of Chivalry, largely adapted from Moorish (Muslim) attitudes towards women, which were, at the time, far more progressive than anything in Europe. Her sons, of course, became the rulers of half of modern-day France, England, and parts of Spain and Germany, spreading the idea across Western Europe.

                    And that's basically the attitude that we have inherited: A combination of a duty to protect women, but also to defer to and cater to them. Well, as I've shown, things change, and if modern women don't like the arrangement we've inherited, then absolutely, let's change it: No more catering to women, no more deference, no more preference - if they want equality, then let's give it them. Give them whatever rights they don't have (if anyone can think of any...) and take away the privileges they've enjoyed for 800 years.

                    Sold.
                    Just to clarify that rape in this instance refers to kidnapping, not actual sexual intercourse, it was a peculiarity of latin that caused this confusion.
                    I sexually identify as a sword pommel, check your privilege or i will have to end you RIGHTLY.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Anonymous View Post
                      Just to clarify that rape in this instance refers to kidnapping, not actual sexual intercourse, it was a peculiarity of latin that caused this confusion.
                      Well, it included sexual intercourse....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Deidre View Post
                        But...feminists don't really mean equality, as in equal in responsibility. They only mean equal, as in rights and those often turn out to be... entitlements.
                        i think his point was that the history of rome is repeating itself now ;]
                        Originally posted by MatrixTransform
                        where were you before you put yourself last?
                        Originally posted by TheNarrator
                        Everywhere I travel, tiny life. Single-serving sugar, single-serving cream, single pat of butter. The microwave Cordon Bleu hobby kit. Shampoo-conditioner combos, sample-packaged mouthwash, tiny bars of soap. The people I meet on each flight? They're single-serving friends.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Deidre View Post
                          But...feminists don't really mean equality, as in equal in responsibility. They only mean equal, as in rights and those often turn out to be... entitlements.
                          Even women that don't identify as feminists have still been able to take advantage of all the female entitlements or affirmative action or protection, I've never met (in person) a women that does not think simply by way of virtue believe that they deserve it all, so in my opinion 99.5% of women have stood by and done nothing while their sons and brothers have been sent to hell by an uncaring female. Many men have not been able to crawl out of the financial ruin or defamation of their character or not been able to see their children, so they kill them selves.

                          Then you have guys like me that just don't care to engage women anymore .... I truly hope the day comes when enough men develop the smarts to look that 99.5% of badly behaving women in the eye and say ... SORRY ... you're not worth it.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by StrongSilentType View Post
                            Well, it included sexual intercourse....
                            Nope, the women were allegedly "convinced" to marry after they were kidnapped but no actual rape was recorded.
                            I sexually identify as a sword pommel, check your privilege or i will have to end you RIGHTLY.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Anonymous View Post
                              Nope, the women were allegedly "convinced" to marry after they were kidnapped but no actual rape was recorded.
                              The story kind of glosses over the part between the abduction and the part where they are married and have children, and because of that agree to stay and tell the rest of the Sabines not to slaughter the Romans.

                              That's not coercive? ^.^

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X