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  • Feminist Authoritarianism - Advice/opinions

    I am a student. A few months ago I joined a student forum. It's very popular with students of all ages and from all levels of education in the UK and other parts of the world. It gets thousands of visits every day. I noticed that there weren't many people talking about feminism and men's issues on the forum, so I decided to start doing that myself. I started creating threads criticising feminist ideology and highlighting issues affecting men around the world. I started threads about the sexist pioneers of feminist theory, the false rape accusations epidemic currently going on in Indian thanks to the feminisation of rape laws in that country, female privilege and male subjugation in our relationship cultures, female privilege in the justice system in the UK, our sexist rape laws etc. The reaction from the majority of students was just amazing. Three or four months after first starting to discuss these issues, the forum has now become dominated by them. Students, both men and women have become extremely engaged in this issue. A lot of them have started making their own threads about men's issues and questioning and criticising feminism. Some feminists even started to distance themselves from this ideology claiming that it no longer represents what they stand for. Some have even gone so far as saying that they no longer consider themselves feminists. There has been a small revolution on that forum, which I think is important considering the fact that these students are the future of our countries and change is in their/our hands.

    Now, this activity has not gone unnoticed and unchallenged. The site moderators have responded to this change with non-stop threads in support of feminism that despite being promoted and highlighted often go ignored by the students. Sadly, it hasn't stopped there. My posts and my threads have become target to constant deletions, edits, abuse and bullying and I have been receiving non-stop warnings. These actions have become more and more desperate with the increase in threads and activism by the students on the site. It is so bad now that every comment that I make is becoming subject to some form of subversion by the staff on the site.....I will most likely be banned very soon and denied my right to express my opinion whilst the feminists will carry on having free reign over the minds of students and spreading their falsehoods on that platform.

    Feminists make up a non-existent minority of people in this country but this ideology is highly institutionalised here particularly within academia. You cannot criticise, question or so much as disagree with them. If you do, you wind up being silenced or having your career or your life destroyed. I hear that people in the US have this same problem. Take what happened to*Lawrence Summers the president of Harvard University as a great example for this. He was pressured out of his job when he incurred the wrath of feminists within academia by simply suggesting the idea that the wage gap might be*caused by "innate" differences between the two genders. Another good example from here in the UK is what happened to Erin Pizzey, founder of the domestic violence shelter movement and critic of feminism. They picketed here lectures, suppressed the publication of her books and threatened her life to the point where she needed a constant police escort and even that did not help as she was eventually forced into exile outside of Britain for 15 years.

    Men are recognised as a disadvantaged group in education in this country, whilst women are considered a privileged group.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...ged-group.html

    and thanks to pro-women gender initiatives going so far as quotas by our feminised government this gap has been getting wider and wider year after year. It doesn't stop at the government level. Feminism has done its best on all platforms to subvert any attempts by people to raise awareness about men's issues let alone resolve them. Just to give a quick example, feminists in our student union have successfully blocked the formation of any group/role advocating men's issues within the union across universities in the UK. Two recent examples being the university of Staffordshire, which had a men’s officer role blocked by a ‘woman’s network’, within the union, who called the idea of such a role “dangerous”. Another example is the university of Durham who’s student union blocked a society set up by a male student to raise awareness about male suicide after his friend killed himself, because feminists within the union thought that it was “too controversial”.

    Our voice is being heavily suppressed and criminally so. It feels like living under an authoritarian dictatorship. People who challenge this authoritarianism usually wind up threatened and abused into silence....and this is what has happened to me in that forum and I have suffered similar problems on other platforms as well.

    Feminism is a brittle, flawed ideology that does not benefit from exposure or criticism. It is heavily institutionalised and therefore has a lot of power and control over platforms and spaces. So it is hard to get your opinions heard without being suppressed.

    How can we overcome this authoritarianism? How do we go about dealing with such problems?

    What can we do?

    We cannot stay confided within our own forums, in places where no-one would hear us but those who agree with us. That's not going to help us spread our beliefs and make change in society. It is going to confine our opinions in places where no-one can hear them. So what can we do?
    Last edited by Equity; 03-15-2017, 11:23 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Equity View Post
    What can we do?
    petitioned endlessly and urgently to step into line and march...

    its feminist.
    its marxist
    its urgent.

    ...but yeah, fuck it ... cant be bothered.

    somebody else can do it ... I'm gonna sit here and watch
    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Equity View Post
      How can we overcome this authoritarianism? How do we go about dealing with such problems?

      What can we do?

      We cannot stay confided within our own forums, in places where no-one would hear us but those who agree with us. That's not going to help us spread our beliefs and make change in society. It is going to confine our opinions in places where no-one can hear them. So what can we do?

      The number one best thing that you can do-- that we can all do-- IMO, is to continue to call them out. Stay on message. Stay on point. That's why I use one very simple idea and meme and use it to hammer home the point wherever I am. Feminism is a HATE GROUP and Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE. I switch it up. Add some additional thoughts as appropriate, but those literal words go in nearly all of my public posts. Feel free to borrow them / steal them / use them anyway you like. The goal is to get everybody saying it all the time. Put the spotlight onto the hateful Feminist rhetoric and ideology. We will have won our first step when they are forced to take a step back and deny it. I am seeing people using these words on Facebook now, Yahoo on occasion, and in other places as I am out and about. I encourage you to do the same. One message. Drive it home. Over and over. Everywhere. It's simple enough that everybody can remember it. We need to stop looking the other way. Stop appeasing them. Stop letting them walk all over us without resistance. We need to CALL THEM OUT on their HATRED and LIES. Get engaged. Feminism is a HATE GROUP. Everybody knows it now. Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE.

      Just like that.
      FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
      It's time to call it out for what it is.
      == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


      The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
      http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Equity View Post
        How can we overcome this authoritarianism? How do we go about dealing with such problems?

        What can we do?

        We cannot stay confided within our own forums, in places where no-one would hear us but those who agree with us. That's not going to help us spread our beliefs and make change in society. It is going to confine our opinions in places where no-one can hear them. So what can we do?
        Firstly well done in what you have done. Starting discussions, getting more openness about the issues was the right thing to do. If the feminists had got their expected response, which is that the people they thought they had indoctrinated would argue with you and reject your perspective, they'd have been quite happy with free speech. Shockingly that compared to other experiences is moderate feminism, even very open minded for feminists.

        You shocked them by the engaged reaction you got and they reacted with oppression, something you've recognised. But you also showed the depth of impact possible. The suppression of your views is the evidence of the totalitarianism. It will mount up.

        Sage Gerard aka Victor Zen, is a Men's Rights campaigner whose experiences can inform yours and is definitely worth you looking up.

        Firstly don't give up. You've made a positive impact using freedom of speech, you have not promoted attacks on women you have promoted looking at men's issues and questioning feminist ideology. There is nothing wrong with that, and that being put on the record and how it gets treated is important.

        To start a process of dealing with this authoritarianism, you must keep all evidence. Every post you make that gets edited - keep from what to what, when done, how soon after posting, what changed, who by, on whose authority. Get people to comment on the change from what to what, show what is being censored out. If you need to use another medium to record and expose it do so, but don't let the evidence be lost. It will mount up, you will be able to find allies in the establishment. Feminists don't have completely control through people believing they are right, they have control through censorship, manipulation and fear mongering. But the University will be in a lot of trouble if it ignores strong evidence.

        The edifice won't just crumble, it's deeply embedded. Feminists are paranoid, they have long been predicting and preparing for 'the backlash' that in their delusional way they describe as men not being able to deal with female equality and losing out on top jobs and rights to women's bodies. They stack the delusions, one to explain the other, but that doesn't make a strong argument, it makes a house of cards; falsify one layer and it risks all collapsing. Young male students are amongst the most committed to equality people ever, they have grown up with very different influences to the prior generation - this is where the argument that young male students act to retain power over women falls down - they've never had this nor experienced these advantages, they have nothing to backlash over, merely concerns over relevant social issues, that is absolutely fair material for young people to tackle and have views on. It is the world they are going to not only live in but also have to solve problems for.

        One of the most salient pieces of advice which you should look up from Sage Gerard, is to protect yourself. Keep evidence, have to hand a pocket digital recorder and record your conversations and encounters with student union officials, academic feminists and others who will target you. This is important to capture evidence, but even more so to protect yourself from false accusations.

        Your greatest strength is being a reasonable person of conscience who believes in equality. They will attempt to destroy that, because they can't let the reality of a reasonable person with strong egalitarian values - disagrees with them - become known, it's a powerful counter against them - and when they start attacking they can't stop, if they fail to silence you they will double down and attack again. The reasonable route of offering space and compromise won't occur to them because what they fear is the collapse of their power based on manipulation.

        You've made a good start, small is where it has to start, smart is what you have to be.
        Last edited by voidspawn; 03-15-2017, 12:36 PM.
        "...especially when it comes to communication, it can be observed, if it is not a negotiation it's a war."
        Originally posted by menrppl2
        Can't live with em, life is great without them.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
          Asshole would assume I believe they have a head attached at the other end. But seriously, too often we all talk past each other and that gets old.

          Yeah, it's a lot more fun talking TO each other-- especially in seeing the confused look on people's faces...

          I am curious about your opinion on this thread, in that thread of course ;-)

          http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...dvice-opinions
          FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
          It's time to call it out for what it is.
          == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


          The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
          http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by mr_e View Post
            Yeah, it's a lot more fun talking TO each other-- especially in seeing the confused look on people's faces...

            I am curious about your opinion on this thread, in that thread of course ;-)

            http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...dvice-opinions
            I think Feminism is a problem in its current ideation. The larger problem is gynocentrism which helps feminism thrive. The best we can do is present the facts as they stand and be persistent and smart with our approach. Any anti-feminism declarations...aka perceived anti-woman only falls into this trap of gynocentrism and provides an easy avenue in today's culture to dismiss real and pressing concerns as they pertain to men and boys.
            ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
            virtue of character--practical/ethical wisdom--human flourishing

            It is not a battle to win but an attitude to share.
            AVFM Mission Statement
            sigpic

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
              I think Feminism is a problem in its current ideation. The larger problem is gynocentrism which helps feminism thrive. The best we can do is present the facts as they stand and be persistent and smart with our approach. Any anti-feminism declarations...aka perceived anti-woman only falls into this trap of gynocentrism and provides an easy avenue in today's culture to dismiss real and pressing concerns as they pertain to men and boys.

              I agree-- would you move these two comments over there?

              I think a helpful thing for us (both here in the Forums, and in the MHRM in general) would be to maybe put together lists of common Feminist arguments, "spot the bullshit" and then suggest reasonable counters. Start helping / coaching people with how to recognize it, how to call it out, and how to dispatch it-- and start giving them the skills and confidence to get out there and call it out.
              FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
              It's time to call it out for what it is.
              == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


              The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
              http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                Firstly well done in what you have done.
                Absolutely.

                To start a process of dealing with this authoritarianism, you must keep all evidence. Every post you make that gets edited - keep from what to what, when done, how soon after posting, what changed, who by, on whose authority. Get people to comment on the change from what to what, show what is being censored out. If you need to use another medium to record and expose it do so, but don't let the evidence be lost.
                Concur.

                They will attempt to destroy that, because they can't let the reality of a reasonable person with strong egalitarian values - disagrees with them - become known, it's a powerful counter against them - and when they start attacking they can't stop, if they fail to silence you they will double down and attack again.
                Try to foresee possible setbacks, and prepare remedies.

                They don't want discussions about forum policy on the forum?
                Save your evidence (of e.g. dealing with this authoritarianism, as Anonymous is describing here in this thread) and publish it on another platform, and make it known to your forum fellows.
                They want to de-platform you? Create another platform already, begin to run it parallell _before_ they ban you, so people know where to find you. Or just switch to e.g https://socfreespeech.com/.
                They attack you in person? Establish some kind of group that will work like a net - taking out one point won't help them, because it doesn't eliminate the activity.
                And so on. For everything you suspect they might do, have a solution to hand before it happens.
                Then, whatever happens, document it and publish it.

                Above all: Watch your step - don't spit on the sidewalk, they'll make an issue out of it ("X spreads TB on campus").

                Best of luck.

                M
                Last edited by Manalysis; 03-15-2017, 02:35 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you all for the replies. I appreciate your opinions and advice very much.

                  Originally posted by MatrixTransform View Post
                  ...but yeah, fuck it ... cant be bothered.

                  somebody else can do it ... I'm gonna sit here and watch
                  The biggest problem that we have, is that people are ignorant of men's issues and uninformed about feminism and its influence on our society and the world. Feminist censorship of free speech and of men’s issues in particular, plays a huge part in this ignorance. This ignorance is the main reason why people refuse to become engaged in these issues. They do not understand the seriousness of the situation. If all the men in the UK, for example, knew that by law, they have no rights to their children whilst women have that right automatically given to them by virtue of their gender, and that this legislation was brought into affect by institutionalised feminism, I doubt very much that men would stay silent. If all the women in the UK new that they were forced to become stay at home mums, deprived the assistance of their ex-partners in raising their children, and that this is caused by laws brought into affect by feminist activism, I doubt that they would stay silent. The cure to the ignorance, the cure to people’s unwillingness to get involved is to educate them and to talk about feminism and to expose this rotten ideology to the world. The problem is that its not easy to do this because this ideology is highly institutionalised and it systematically suppresses and oppresses dissenting views.

                  Here in the UK less than 10% of women and men identify as feminists. The vast majority of the population do not support feminism. Yet this unelected minority is in control of all mediums of expression and holds sway in all facets of life. You cannot publish a book because of their control of the publishing industry. You cannot write an article in a newspaper because of their control of the news media. You cannot form a charity, an organisation to raise awareness about men, without coming up against feminist barriers in unions, in the government, in the public and private sectors, in organisations, in academia, in all aspects of life. So its very hard to have your views heard.

                  Originally posted by mr_e View Post
                  The number one best thing that you can do-- that we can all do-- IMO, is to continue to call them out. Stay on message. Stay on point. That's why I use one very simple idea and meme and use it to hammer home the point wherever I am. Feminism is a HATE GROUP and Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE. I switch it up. Add some additional thoughts as appropriate, but those literal words go in nearly all of my public posts. Feel free to borrow them / steal them / use them anyway you like. The goal is to get everybody saying it all the time. Put the spotlight onto the hateful Feminist rhetoric and ideology. We will have won our first step when they are forced to take a step back and deny it. I am seeing people using these words on Facebook now, Yahoo on occasion, and in other places as I am out and about. I encourage you to do the same. One message. Drive it home. Over and over. Everywhere. It's simple enough that everybody can remember it. We need to stop looking the other way. Stop appeasing them. Stop letting them walk all over us without resistance. We need to CALL THEM OUT on their HATRED and LIES. Get engaged. Feminism is a HATE GROUP. Everybody knows it now. Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE.

                  Just like that.
                  I agree 100%. My approach to gender issues and feminism is always honest. I remain respectful but I do not sugar coat my views. Feminism, is in my view, an evil, flawed ideology that needs to be fought and the best way to go about fighting feminism, I think, is to give it exposure:

                  "All that is necessary to defeat feminism is to tell the truth about feminism.” Robert McCain. Sex Trouble: Essays on Radical Feminism and the War Against Human Nature.

                  …but like I said, its not easy to do this when you’re being blocked and banned and silenced by feminists wherever you go.

                  Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                  Firstly well done in what you have done. Starting discussions, getting more openness about the issues was the right thing to do. If the feminists had got their expected response, which is that the people they thought they had indoctrinated would argue with you and reject your perspective, they'd have been quite happy with free speech. Shockingly that compared to other experiences is moderate feminism, even very open minded for feminists.
                  Thank you for your amazingly insightful, supportive response/advice voidspawn.

                  Indeed, this level of authoritarianism is moderate by feminist standards. I understand that they can do and have done far worse. Their mannerisms speak volumes for what they stand for and our actions, our enthusiasm for debate and exposure, speaks volumes for what we stand for.

                  Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                  You shocked them by the engaged reaction you got and they reacted with oppression, something you've recognised. But you also showed the depth of impact possible. The suppression of your views is the evidence of the totalitarianism. It will mount up.
                  You are an incredibly intelligent human being. This censorship and abuse is indeed ‘evidence’ of their totalitarianism and I understand that this ‘evidence’ can play a powerful role in my activism. So, whenever I engage in debates with these people I am very careful to record anything and everything. I not only do this to hold them accountable for their mistakes in the same way that they hold me accountable for mine but to protect myself as well. I know that I am dealing with a people who have no standards of decency or morality. A people who have no case for their cause. A people who have no choice but to resort to entirely unethical practices, the twisting of words and false accusations, to defend their cause. I am very aware of this so I always keep a record of everything that I do in order to protect myself incase I am accused of something that I have not done. This might help but they are above the law and above reason. So this rational approach is not fool proof.

                  Every other anti-feminist that I come across suffers similar problems from feminists. I don’t necessarily think that this is an exclusively bad thing. In this society, in the UK, victimhood is a coveted status that conveys privilege on people. So being victimised by feminism can play to our advantage. It can benefit our cause in many ways, but it does act as a barrier to us conveying our opinions and that is a huge problem that needs to be addressed affectively.

                  Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                  Sage Gerard aka Victor Zen, is a Men's Rights campaigner whose experiences can inform yours and is definitely worth you looking up.
                  Thank you for telling me about him. I’ve a read a couple of his articles. They are eye opening. The authoritarian tactics of feminism have somewhat succeeded in keeping people like him, their books, their articles, their opinions from the public…It is sad to see such intelligent people not have the publicity that they deserve. That is one of the negative sides of censorship. It acts as a barrier to great minds that have great potential of benefitting society. It acts as a barrier to progress.

                  Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
                  Firstly don't give up. You've made a positive impact using freedom of speech, you have not promoted attacks on women you have promoted looking at men's issues and questioning feminist ideology. There is nothing wrong with that, and that being put on the record and how it gets treated is important
                  No, giving up is not an option.

                  Originally posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
                  I think Feminism is a problem in its current ideation. The larger problem is gynocentrism which helps feminism thrive. The best we can do is present the facts as they stand and be persistent and smart with our approach. Any anti-feminism declarations...aka perceived anti-woman only falls into this trap of gynocentrism and provides an easy avenue in today's culture to dismiss real and pressing concerns as they pertain to men and boys.
                  God almighty….the people on this forum ooze intelligence….the standard of debate is in complete contrast to debates that I have with feminists all of whom without exception resort to primitive arguments, trolling and other forms of abuse. That again, speaks volumes for what they stand for and what we stand for.

                  In answer to your comment, I am very careful in what I say and how I say it. I do not want to risk coming across “anti-woman” and doing harm to my cause and bringing my activism to a premature end as many men have done before me. “Anti-woman” is not what I am. I make that very clear.

                  I believe that feminism has always been a flawed ideology from its inception to its current form. Some people believe that feminism needs to be changed. I strongly disagree with this opinion. I believe that it needs to be eradicated. I also believe that it is very important to declare anti-feminism and to stand up against this ideology without fear of being misunderstood. Why should I fear false accusations? I am anti-feminist, because I am for equality between the sexes. I am anti-feminist because i believe that feminist theory is flawed and highly damaging to society. I am anti-feminist because it is anti-men and anti-women. I am anti-feminist because feminism is sexism and I am against sexism.

                  Originally posted by Manalysis View Post

                  Try to foresee possible setbacks, and prepare remedies.

                  They don't want discussions about forum policy on the forum?
                  Save your evidence (of e.g. dealing with this authoritarianism, as Anonymous is describing here in this thread) and publish it on another platform, and make it known to your forum fellows.
                  They want to de-platform you? Create another platform already, begin to run it parallell _before_ they ban you, so people know where to find you. Or just switch to e.g https://socfreespeech.com/.
                  They attack you in person? Establish some kind of group that will work like a net - taking out one point won't help them, because it doesn't eliminate the activity.
                  And so on. For everything you suspect they might do, have a solution to hand before it happens.
                  Then, whatever happens, document it and publish it.

                  Above all: Watch your step - don't spit on the sidewalk, they'll make an issue out of it ("X spreads TB on campus").

                  Best of luck.

                  M
                  Thank you so much for these pointers.
                  Last edited by Equity; 03-21-2017, 08:46 PM.

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