are strong female characters in books or movies "empowering" for gay men?

[astr591]

just wondering what people thought on this, as I saw this mentioned on a Film message board I usually visit


someone said this

I've always wondered: why are gay guys so enamored with actresses/female characters? If you've ever been to a website called The Film Experience, Nathaniel Rogers is obsessed with actresses and a gay friend of mine is the same way.

and a response was this

Well, even though I'm gay, I'm not like that, but I can understand it. Misogyny is one of the core issues at the heart of homophobia - gay men are perceived as more feminine and, by extension, weaker. Strong female characters are empowering for a lot of gay men simply because they fight against the weak=woman (and sissy 'mos) logic a lot of us are exposed to, especially growing up...

[godtherapist]

Well, even though I'm gay, I'm not like that, but I can understand it. Misogyny is one of the core issues at the heart of homophobia - gay men are perceived as more feminine and, by extension, weaker. Strong female characters are empowering for a lot of gay men simply because they fight against the weak=woman (and sissy 'mos) logic a lot of us are exposed to, especially growing up...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Oh god no.

I always hated this argument "Calling Men a Girl is bad because Women are weak" because it is stupid. It has nothing to do with comparing men to women and everything to do with comparing a person to something they are not.

If it was a male/female thing then comparing a woman to a man would be a compliment and it is not. They did a whole episode of Seinfeld about when Jerry dates a woman with "man hands" and it was seen as a detriment not a compliment. They did a whole thing on Glee about the Female coach being "Too Male" to be beautiful.

[Gladiator]

I honestly think gay men tend to pigeonhole themselves into that weak, effeminate stereotype. Being a man who likes men doesn't necessarily mean that a man has to carry himself like a woman, but this is what many gay men have chosen to do. The worst part about this for gay men is that women expect this out of them and that leads to their objectification.

I guess gay men identify with strong women so much because they are already perceived by the majority of society as being female, but don't want to be viewed as weak. So, instead of being a strong man, they feel they identify more with a strong woman.

[Teraus]

I don't feel more powerful when I see strong female characters... So I guess not.

It's not misoginy. Femininity is perceived as an acceptable trait for women, but not for men, because society has greater standards for masculinity. It is acceptable for a woman to be weak and she will still be considered valuable in that case. A weak man is seen as worthless.

[godtherapist]

There's a slight difference. Female manliness is a detriment because it's seen as grossly unattractive. Male womanliness carries much different cultural baggage. Men aren't expected to step out of the limiting male gender role.

I honestly can not understand a single point you ever try to make. You are either the absolute worst troll to ever exist or completely unable to form a rational thought.

[Maxx]

No no no no.

'Strong' female characters (s in the kind written by professional mangina Joss Whedon)DO NOT appeal to (significant numbers of) gay men. That's because they are a masturbation fantasy favoured by a effeminate hetrosexual FEMINIST nerds who dream of a woman that has the ablity to take on masculine qualities and 'lead' a relationship (in the world of fantasy of course). They are a herosexual MALE feminist's fantasy.

Gay men on the whole tend (stereotypically atleast) to feel empowered by ULTRA femmine icons. Divas such as Mariah Carey, Dolly Parton, Cher, Rhianna or historically Marylin Monroe. Personally I think it's because some effeminate gay men despise and have issues with masculinity and so idolize icons that are ultra cartoonish representations of the female privilage and entitlement and feminine power that many effeminate gay men WISH they could somehow co opt for themselves.

They ARE NOT...attracted to female characters in spandex who do kung fu. That appeals to female and male feminists, manginas and male nerds. Not (on the whole) gay men. Those kung fu babes are the sexual fantasy of men that want to KNEEL and SERVE feminine power NOT the fantasy figures of (effeminte gay) men who want to WIELD that feminine power and privilage for themselves.

[Shadizar]

YES!!!

Define a "strong female character!!!"

[Jack H.]

gay guys being effeminate never made any logical sense to me ether, they are presumably looking for a guy who's also attracted to men so why would they want to appear like what their target is not attracted to aka a women?
unless they are trying to attract men who are attracted to women, which is what homophobes are supposedly afraid of?

that would be like me trying to attract strait women by wearing a dress... maby I could trick a lesbian like that but I bet my beard would give me away (or not I've seen some of those feminist dikes O.o)

but my guess is that effeminate behavior has become sort of a marking, plumage if you will so that they can advertise their sexuality without someone having to ask so as to prevent awkwardness in social situations and attract potential mates.

[astr591]

YES!!!

Define a "strong female character!!!"

I guess they are talking about people like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or something

[MrScruffles]

I honestly think gay men tend to pigeonhole themselves into that weak, effeminate stereotype. Being a man who likes men doesn't necessarily mean that a man has to carry himself like a woman, but this is what many gay men have chosen to do. The worst part about this for gay men is that women expect this out of them and that leads to their objectification.

Gay men on the whole tend (stereotypically atleast) to feel empowered by ULTRA femmine icons. Divas such as Mariah Carey, Dolly Parton, Cher, Rhianna or historically Marylin Monroe. Personally I think it's because some effeminate gay men despise and have issues with masculinity and so idolize icons that are ultra cartoonish representations of the female privilage and entitlement and feminine power that many effeminate gay men WISH they could somehow co opt for themselves.

I didn't know Rob Halford was considered effeminate.

[Shadizar]

I guess they are talking about people like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or something

Oh those ones, the women who are men. Gotcha. Here I was wondering if it was those women who starred in dramas.

[ErikTheRed]

Saying that strong females empower gay men makes just as bad a stereotype about gay men. There are different kinds of gay men, bears, twinks, whatever. Look at the above pic of Halford. Does he strike you as lady-like? Manginas and feminists why try to spread the idea that strong women are empowering to gay men are actually doing a disservice to gay men by lumping them all together and assuming (rather asininely) that just because they are gay they all like the same thing. As usual, feminism misses its mark by a mile and only further shows how clueless they are.

[Shadizar]

I think the people trying to promote this idea think of it like so...

[christo930]

just wondering what people thought on this, as I saw this mentioned on a Film message board I usually visit


someone said this

I've always wondered: why are gay guys so enamored with actresses/female characters? If you've ever been to a website called The Film Experience, Nathaniel Rogers is obsessed with actresses and a gay friend of mine is the same way.

and a response was this

Well, even though I'm gay, I'm not like that, but I can understand it. Misogyny is one of the core issues at the heart of homophobia - gay men are perceived as more feminine and, by extension, weaker. Strong female characters are empowering for a lot of gay men simply because they fight against the weak=woman (and sissy 'mos) logic a lot of us are exposed to, especially growing up...

I hate to break it to whatever moron said this, but women are weaker than men on average. There are outliers, individual women who are exceptionally strong and individual men who are exceptionally weak, but on the average men have full number multiples of upper body strength than women. I don't know why anyone could think this is in contention, we are biologically classified as a dimorphic species. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_dimorphism#Humans)

It's not a stereotype, it is a fact of biology. Men can't have babies, but are much physically stronger than women.

There's another stupid fallacy here too.... That being compared to a woman is an insult because they are compared to a woman and that it somehow implies something. The only thing it implies is that you aren't meeting (in someone's eyes) the minimum criteria to be considered a man. It's the stripping of your manhood and not an unfavorable comparison to women that is insulting. Same exact thing with a straight person being called gay, it's stripping that straight person of their gender identity and saying that you aren't living up to a minimum standard of your gender or sexual identity.

God, these people are stupid.

Chris

[OzzieMatt]

I think this is a crap argument.
Homosexual men are as diverse a group as the wider community. Just because someone is gay, doesn't mean they'll go shopping with you and want to brush your hair after dinner.
Gay blokes I know are mechanics who ride motorcycles, and that sort of ilk. They don't look gay and they definitely don't feel empowered by seeing strong women. They're indifferent.
The argument probably applies to some, but definitely not all gay men. As much as feminists would wish it otherwise. Feminists like to claim gay people as part of the fight against the 'patriarchy'. But I know there was a gay pub in my town that wanted to be men only and feminists fought tooth and nail to try to stop it. The gay blokes won and fair enough too.
Straight men on the other hand would have no chance. Even the damn "men's sheds" popping up all over Australia are being controlled by WOMEN. It's typical and totally ridiculous. But anyway, I digress.