Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

    I can laugh at pretty much anything. My problem is I very rarely remember jokes.

    Strangely enough the only rape joke I can recall involves a bloke being arse raped to death. Damn my misogyny.

    Comment


    • #17
      RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

      Originally posted by dhanu
      MRA's think that the rape jokes are okay as long as real rape victims are not being joked about. MRA's think the society making misandric jokes ('Boys are stupid throw rocks at them' etc) are not okay even when no real victims are involved. Explain.
      I find rape jokes disgusting and I almost always down vote them when I see them that said I'll ask you two questions if you don't mind
      1:how many men that are making rape jokes do you think in fact think its ok to rape?
      2:how many women that are making are men are stupid jokes do in fact think men are stupid?
      Interested in men rights activism in the Sydney area ?
      Go to mensrightssydney.com

      Comment


      • #18
        RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

        Yes, that is kinda the point. I'll first answer the questions like textbook answers

        1. I don't know for I can't read minds. Guess not many because I consider myself a typical person and I find rape jokes okay but rape not okay. So I'd assume that most others who are typical/normal people that find rape jokes okay are just like me and they don't find the act of rape okay.

        2. I don't know. Guess not many, just as above. In this case I do not have a personal experience as a woman because I'm a man. But I myself find stupid boy jokes funny but I don't find boys/men stupid. I'd say same would be the case with typical/normal women but I have no way of knowing for sure.

        Now I come to the point I made above. Since joking about a thing is not the same as supporting that thing, and most normal people can make or get (understand, take as fun) the jokes about things they don't really support, it should be a non-issue. But then the feminism won't remain relevant. So it has to create an issue. It created one: Criminalize rape jokes (right now it's not outlawed but if feminists had their way all through, it would be).

        In response, the MRA's said, don't criminalize any jokes.

        Feminists ask, so why do you advocate for criminalize misandric jokes then? If MRA's had their way all through, they'll outlaw misandry jokes. So MRA's are just like feminists. Feminists don't have problem with misandric jokes, MRA's don't have problem with rape jokes. Feminists have problem with rape jokes, MRA's have problem with misandric jokes.

        My aim was to get an answer to this argument. Now you can read my previous comments as my further response would look like a repetition of the previous responses. The final conclusion is: It's all a non-issue (as it was in the beginning when the feminists didn't start fiddling with jokes). And being intentionally stupid, femmos ain't gonna be convinced anyway (it's hard to make someone understand something when one's job depends upon not understanding that thing). So the matter is best left alone.

        I still have some questions now, but they target the MRM, so I left them out. My aim is to oppose and challenge feminism, not MRM.
        The MRM Glossary - From Zero to Hero MRA :P

        Comment


        • #19
          RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

          Originally posted by dhanu
          Feminists ask, so why do you advocate for criminalize misandric jokes then? If MRA's had their way all through, they'll outlaw misandry jokes. So MRA's are just like feminists. Feminists don't have problem with misandric jokes, MRA's don't have problem with rape jokes. Feminists have problem with rape jokes, MRA's have problem with misandric jokes.

          You can't really say that the "MRM" has a problem with anything other than being against men's rights and even that is debatable as it is plausible to argue that someone that will only fight for men's rights but not against those who rail against men's rights is still an MRA (though a very ineffective and not altogether sane one).

          Sorry, but the MRM doesn't have a concrete ideology only that MRM's are for men's rights.

          I personally do not fight against misandric jokes, I think the jokes are not the problem, the problem is that it is obvious seeing the reaction of society that misogynic jokes are in general considered vulgar and even wrong while most of society finds misandric jokes alright and even hilarious.

          It is the same with rape jokes, a vast amount of people think nothing of laughing at prison rape jokes but rail against female rape jokes.

          Whether sexist jokes or rape jokes are good or bad we can see from the above that society cares a heck of allot more about woman than it does men.
          \"kthxbye\" is the pinnacle of English\'s advancement, shortening \"All correct, Thank you, God be with you.\" into seven lowercase letters. Humanity is doomed... - kaeru:urbandictionary

          Comment


          • #20
            RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

            That whole paragraph you quoted of mine is the femispeak not my own views.
            The MRM Glossary - From Zero to Hero MRA :P

            Comment


            • #21
              RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

              Originally posted by dhanu
              That whole paragraph you quoted of mine is the femispeak not my own views.
              Sorry you might want to put such in quotes, otherwise it makes it hard to know.
              \"kthxbye\" is the pinnacle of English\'s advancement, shortening \"All correct, Thank you, God be with you.\" into seven lowercase letters. Humanity is doomed... - kaeru:urbandictionary

              Comment


              • #22
                RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

                It's not an actual conversation so I didn't put in quotes but I'll use better formatting (italics etc) next time
                The MRM Glossary - From Zero to Hero MRA :P

                Comment


                • #23
                  RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

                  Originally posted by Dr. F
                  G'day Dhanu,

                  When you get something like this,

                  "F: You think I should believe whatever you say?"

                  [All you need to is answer it followed by a query.]

                  "D: No. And I'm wondering how my answer of a yes or a no changes anything about what I have just told you. Please explain."

                  You throw their stalling question into analysis and now they are accountable for the obviously dishonest question. It's dishonest because it's designed to fluster you and draw attention away from the content of your previous words to her/him/it.

                  This what these feminists do. They run out of material and focus on process and not content. They always do it just as the sun will always come up each day and how stars will only pop out at night.

                  I never debate these fuckers now. Not ever. I used to. I tried this and that and gave figures with citation and so on. The result was always (always) the same, a scrambling mess of shame from them with shouts or capital lettering and aspersions about my character. The insults flying here and there and no matter what I said they always refused to see the truth right there in front of them.

                  Say your piece and let them stew in their own misandric juices. Their numbers are slimming all the time and their shouts are getting louder and louder because of it.

                  Fuck 'em mate.
                  A rule of thumb I follow is to 'allow' them to initially set the tone (since it's almost always the same tone, this allows for a 'set piece' approach). Usually, they posit what could be termed an 'emotional argument'. Such and such is worse when it happens to women type stuff. Oftentimes this takes the form of an accusation of misogyny, as in "You must really hate women if you're not outraged about X" type things.

                  The thing you need to do when engaging a feminist in 'debate', is that it is almost without exception simply a contest of who makes the other look worse to onlookers. Logic, reason, statistics, philosophy....they mean sweet fuck all in these debates. Which is likely why you refuse to do it any more.... But if you approach the debate as a means to 'push her buttons'...to expose her real motives, for example, or to make her look like Archie Bunker on steroids, or to simply twist her up in a logical pretzel for kicks....well, feminists make painfully easy targets.

                  Which is likely how most of them view MRAs, frankly. So turnabout and all that....

                  This is why I am such a big fan of learning Game...even if you're the most flaming homosexual alive repulsed at the thought of touching a woman....if you're even so much as interested in winning online debates with feminists, learning Game is HUGELY beneficial. More to the point, learning and internalizing the theory....once you understand women even marginally better than the average guy, most feminists will have NO idea how to counter most arguments you make.

                  Not saying YOU don't understand women Dr F...we both know you da man....but in general it's a good thing for MRAs to know, and employ in debate.

                  Hell, how cool would it be to literally SEDUCE women out of Feminism...?

                  Anyway, I'm rambling....

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

                    Originally posted by dhanu
                    Yes, that is kinda the point. I'll first answer the questions like textbook answers

                    1. I don't know for I can't read minds. Guess not many because I consider myself a typical person and I find rape jokes okay but rape not okay. So I'd assume that most others who are typical/normal people that find rape jokes okay are just like me and they don't find the act of rape okay.

                    2. I don't know. Guess not many, just as above. In this case I do not have a personal experience as a woman because I'm a man. But I myself find stupid boy jokes funny but I don't find boys/men stupid. I'd say same would be the case with typical/normal women but I have no way of knowing for sure.

                    Now I come to the point I made above. Since joking about a thing is not the same as supporting that thing, and most normal people can make or get (understand, take as fun) the jokes about things they don't really support, it should be a non-issue. But then the feminism won't remain relevant. So it has to create an issue. It created one: Criminalize rape jokes (right now it's not outlawed but if feminists had their way all through, it would be).

                    In response, the MRA's said, don't criminalize any jokes.

                    Feminists ask, so why do you advocate for criminalize misandric jokes then? If MRA's had their way all through, they'll outlaw misandry jokes. So MRA's are just like feminists. Feminists don't have problem with misandric jokes, MRA's don't have problem with rape jokes. Feminists have problem with rape jokes, MRA's have problem with misandric jokes.

                    My aim was to get an answer to this argument. Now you can read my previous comments as my further response would look like a repetition of the previous responses. The final conclusion is: It's all a non-issue (as it was in the beginning when the feminists didn't start fiddling with jokes). And being intentionally stupid, femmos ain't gonna be convinced anyway (it's hard to make someone understand something when one's job depends upon not understanding that thing). So the matter is best left alone.

                    I still have some questions now, but they target the MRM, so I left them out. My aim is to oppose and challenge feminism, not MRM.
                    Hmmm...

                    "Feminists ask, so why do you advocate for criminalize misandric jokes then? If MRA's had their way all through, they'll outlaw misandry jokes."

                    First off, that's a line of utter horse shit. MRAs would absolutely NOT 'outlaw' any kind of joke. And the vast majority of MRAs don't get quite that involved in being offended.

                    I made a response to Dr F in this thread dealing with crap like this... I'll try and take a stab at it for you here....

                    First off, a joke in and of itself is not the issue (if there indeed IS an issue), it is the sentiment behind it. This tends to put such arguments in the same category as Pornography ('I know it when I see it'), hard to categorize.

                    The trick to 'winning' this argument though, is to understand the motivation behind that line of attack. The desire to essentially show that MRAs are every bit as hypocritical as feminists is a pretty damned weak 'defense', wouldn't you say? Speaking of weak defenses, MRAs have quite a few of those as well...mostly because we, as a movement and as a sex, lack the ability to 'reframe' the argument, which is exactly the approach it is begging for.

                    Agree and amplify "Yeah, there's no shortage of Church Ladies in the MRM...difference is, we're not writing laws, operating billion dollar grievance industries, or dominating the 'social discourse' on all things Gender related."

                    Reframe: "What I would like to know, though, is why Feminists seem to think it's OK to dictate what people should be 'allowed' to say? Isn't the whole idea of our society that your Rights ends at the tip of my nose? Is this about 'women', or is this really about 'politics'? And if it's about Politics, why do you feel the need to hide yours in emotional arguments? Blah Blah blah."

                    Don't think of an argument from a Feminist as a definitive statement that must be directly refuted...this is a mistake damn near every MRA makes every day... A 'definitive' argument posited from a feminist in such a situation is best thought of as a 'hook', the initial grappling point in an emotional wrestling match...it is not a cut and dried 'Is he right, or is she?'

                    If you enjoy such things, learning Game will vastly improve your ability to out-argue feminists. I HIGHLY recommend it.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

                      I wrote a long response but found that it was essentially the same that I've already written Until I get more skilled at expressing my views more clearly, I pause at this subject. Until then, I've decided that I won't engage in that debate with a feminist (if that debate ever came up) and leave it to another MRA. I'd also say that it's not always feminists. Read the comments I made in the linked thread in responding to Eoghan who doesn't seem to be a feminist (and Game might not work there, either ). That commenter does seem to have a point. Reframing the question won't work either.

                      I don't enjoy debating feminists. I just want honest counter points to all they have to say. All they should be capable of silencing me with must be dishonesty, not reason.
                      The MRM Glossary - From Zero to Hero MRA :P

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

                        Frankly you never can win an argument with a dishonest person (whether they are consciously dishonest or fooling themselves), the only thing you can do is present an honest argument and hope those watching are honest.

                        If your argument is honest and sound you can win those watching who are willing to listen.
                        \"kthxbye\" is the pinnacle of English\'s advancement, shortening \"All correct, Thank you, God be with you.\" into seven lowercase letters. Humanity is doomed... - kaeru:urbandictionary

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

                          It's not about honesty in the argument. I don't HAVE an argument - is the problem.

                          What do I respond to Eoghan in comments on this article? Nobody else has done there, either. That remains a loophole in the MRM claims. A feminist can exploit it at some point if it's not closed. It's a tiny one though, so not so important as it won't sink the MRM along with it. But I thought it would be good if it can be closed for once and all.
                          The MRM Glossary - From Zero to Hero MRA :P

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            RE: Hypocrisy Accusations vs Freedom of Speech/Thought

                            Oh sorry I think I already answered it, its not the jokes that are the problem its how most people react.

                            Most people don't like or are very uncomfortable with rape jokes about women.This makes it pretty obvious that our society is not permisive towards rape.

                            On the other hand most people have no problem with jokes about mutilating men's dicks. This makes it fairly obvious that most of society is at best ambivalent towards that happening.
                            \"kthxbye\" is the pinnacle of English\'s advancement, shortening \"All correct, Thank you, God be with you.\" into seven lowercase letters. Humanity is doomed... - kaeru:urbandictionary

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X