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  • Originally posted by voidspawn View Post
    Now that is direct lie. You know exactly what I've been arguing for, proper evidence and due process. Same for everyone. Now you've pulled your accusation tactics on me and claim I am defending neo-nazis. You have gone far overboard. Take your little hate campaign and go chase some real neo-nazis.
    I agree. Simpleman, just about everybody in this thread has been exceedingly kind to you, listened to you, and responded to your various points and arguments in good spirit and in good faith. And in return you have repeatedly accused people of harboring ill-intent, ulterior motives, being sympathetic to hateful thoughts, opinions and acts, and generally making accusations against people regarding thoughts and motivations you can't possibly have any way of knowing-- particularly against the generally even-handed and thoughtful approach the majority of people here responding are taking. It is getting a little old. I don't think anybody here has any problems talking to you about your points and opinions-- even if you have a completely different opinion and point-of-view-- but you have been repeatedly crossing the line of decent behavior in accusing people of harboring subversive thoughts and opinions which are nowhere in evidence. Nor am I accusing YOU of having those thoughts or opinions-- debate and argument are exactly the type of discourse which is appropriate in the forums for discussing the various points of view with a tacit understanding that in the end, during the breaks and when the debate is over, everybody shakes hands and returns to their corners. That is the sportsman-like approach to congenial conversation and general forum debate.


    It isn't nice, and frankly I think you're better than that. Why stoop to that level?
    Last edited by mr_e; 08-24-2017, 02:21 PM.
    FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
    It's time to call it out for what it is.
    == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


    The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
    http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

    Comment


    • Originally posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
      That is contingent on the system being healthy. There are no easy answers, there is only truth and the only way of finding truth is by not shutting down dialogue. Don't misunderstand me on this...if who I consider the very small contingent...Neo Nazis decide dialogue is inadequate and choose to use violence, my guns are pointed on them. In fact they are and I watch them closely.

      antifa and the likes are playing another game IMO, one very insidious and one history has shown to be more dangerous. My guns are on them and I see them as the larger threat.

      Your notion of no platforming seems justified in your mind because of the the cause you are targeting. The fact is, that same justification can easily be turned on you, if not sooner but later.

      Note: "Guns" being used metaphorically.

      The irony here-- which I am certain is completely lost on Simpleman-- is that in MOST instances of "Klan" / "White Supremacy" rallies and marches, they get their permits to gather / march legally, show up, say whatever it is they feel like they need to say, everybody else ignores them, and then they go home. A complete NON-EVENT. The reason Charlottesville was an event is because people who were NOT the Klan / White Supremacist groups went there with the specific purpose to MAKE IT AN EVENT-- and that's exactly what happened. They were spoiling for a fight and one way or the other, they got what they wanted. Doesn't matter who started it, who threw the first punch or any of it-- the fact is that normal, regular, freedom and liberty-loving, god-fearing people IGNORE THEM, LAUGH AT THEM, and don't pay any attention to them and they stay a FRINGE ELEMENT. Now suddenly they have come roaring to life because of the actions of the LEFT and ANTIFA and the associated response (people, funding, political capital, etc.) which they have incurred AS A DIRECT RESULT OF THE ACTIONS OF THE LEFT. The LEFT has poured gasoline on the Nazi / Klan / White Supremacist fire and they are now busy FANNING THE FLAMES.

      I personally find it difficult to conceive of anything MORE STUPID to do. It's right up there with the religion of Rattlesnake handling, IMO.
      Last edited by mr_e; 08-24-2017, 02:22 PM.
      FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
      It's time to call it out for what it is.
      == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


      The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
      http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

      Comment


      • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
        So a group like Vanguard America
        YOU are the one who keeps bringing up "Vanguard America". I can't speak for anybody else, but until I heard *YOU* say it, I had never even heard of the group. They were not a single thing to me and I did not have a single neuron in my brain dedicated to knowing / remembering what they are or are about. So I guess, "Thanks" are in order for pointing all that out to me and causing me to re-prioritize my allocation of mental space to include them as something to think about.
        FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
        It's time to call it out for what it is.
        == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


        The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
        http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

        Comment


        • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
          By the way... is that the same guy Elam talked on his article? the one that got kicked out of MRA for his far right point of views?

          Maybe we should be talking of why free speech get censored on the MRAs community? first it was the crazy facist then it was... uh... nope... seams like it was the crazy facist and it stopped there... didn't it?

          Maybe Elam wants to lock Trump and all his voters too???
          The answer is "YES", it is the same guy.

          So let's talk about that-- "Free Speech" did *NOT* get censored on the MRA's community [sic] for several reasons:

          #1. AVoiceForMen is *NOT* the "MRA's" community. It is a *member* of the MRA's community.

          #2. Paul Elam does not have any power to regulate the speech of an "MRA" (or anybody else for that matter) outside the confines of his own web site. Which he both owns and is in-charge of.

          #3. Paul Elam / aka "AVoiceForMen" is *very clear* right up front, what type of speech is permitted on the site and what isn't. And states in no uncertain terms that people who do not adhere to those policies are subject to being censored (comments deleted) and having their accounts banned. Furthermore, he-- and by extension, AVFM-- seem to me to be fairly well balanced in their willingness to permit true argument and counter-opinion when it isn't framed as an attack or couched in the language of derision. Which, personally, I think is a very good and decent thing for him to do. It is certainly better treatment than people making counterpoints on Jezebel can expect I will point out. When you sign up for your account on AVFM, or start posting there, you have implicitly agreed to be bound by those restrictions and the call of the site / forum moderators in policing your speech.

          And just for the record, there have been instances where the AVFM (site and forum) moderators have deleted comments I have made, and I have protested, given them a clear and justifiable reason for making the comment and explained how it is germane and relevant to the discussion, and on a number of occasions they have reconsidered and reinstated my comments. I think it is more about how the comments are made-- and the spirit in which they are made. I don't see (have never seen-- a few instances here and there excepted) the moderators really attempting to *suppress* true, honest intellectual opposition or difference of opinion. Certainly every moderator has a different threshold but they all do a pretty good job, IMO, of keeping their actions grounded and for the purpose of removing assholes, jerks, asshats, hate, (most) vitriol, direct attacks, and plain old trolling.

          #4. The MRA's community is a self-organized, self-conducted community. If you feel that you are an "MRA", you have just elected yourself a member of the community. As such, you are certainly free to start up your own web site-- many people have actually done that-- to express your own views and opinions, and then to solicit for traffic to get people to come read your views and opinions. Paul Elam has no control over that, and depending on what you write and say, he might even like it and be amenable to assisting you in promoting that. He seems to be a reasonable fellow who appreciates honest discourse and a diversity of opinion. The more I get to know Paul (which has been a slow process, we don't communicate very often) the more I like him and admire not only his efforts to raise awareness for Men and their issues, but just honestly like and respect him as a decent human being who gets often negatively portrayed by people who have a particular axe to grind and are willing to compromise their journalistic integrity in return for a few quick clicks.
          Last edited by mr_e; 08-24-2017, 02:24 PM.
          FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
          It's time to call it out for what it is.
          == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


          The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
          http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
            IIRC that's from Henry II's 1166 Assize of Clarendon, even before the 1215 Magna Charta, so it has some tradition already.
            M
            You crack me up sometimes. I hope you know that. ;-)
            FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
            It's time to call it out for what it is.
            == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


            The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
            http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MatrixTransform View Post
              what then would you propose ?

              How would you control or sanction the proper order of correct-speak?

              What devices would you employ to have this outcome?

              Now dont be pulling your bullshit trick of framing the answers as more questions... mate, now is the time to give everybody here the benefit of your wisdom.

              bullet-points will be fine
              Let's see...

              * Groups that discriminate or promote hate speech can't do public demonstrations.

              * The ones that get to do public demonstrations, here some rules:
              - No covering the face is allow
              - No weaponry
              - No blocking traffic or usual cittie activities
              - Stay on topic: keep your slogans, banners and materials relevant to the topic... for example: do not ask permits to demonstrate about a statue and come with a bunch of nazi symbols and white supremacy slogans that have nothing to do with the statue, or the pretended topic of the demonstrations... infractors may not get permits to future demonstrations.

              * Demonstrations on private property goes under actual laws and regulations, so everything OK, as long as there is not crimes or laud noises that disturb the neighbors or what not... basically, like any other party or gathering that individuals do in private property.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                Let's see...

                * Groups that discriminate or promote hate speech can't do public demonstrations.

                * The ones that get to do public demonstrations, here some rules:
                - No covering the face is allow
                - No weaponry
                - No blocking traffic or usual cittie activities
                - Stay on topic: keep your slogans, banners and materials relevant to the topic... for example: do not ask permits to demonstrate about a statue and come with a bunch of nazi symbols and white supremacy slogans that have nothing to do with the statue, or the pretended topic of the demonstrations... infractors may not get permits to future demonstrations.

                * Demonstrations on private property goes under actual laws and regulations, so everything OK, as long as there is not crimes or laud noises that disturb the neighbors or what not... basically, like any other party or gathering that individuals do in private property.
                So I reckon, based on your own criteria, that would rule out ANTIFA on several grounds.
                FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                It's time to call it out for what it is.
                == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


                The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
                http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

                Comment


                • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                  Let's see...

                  * Groups that discriminate or promote hate speech can't do public demonstrations
                  Where does that leave the Black Panthers and Nation of Islam?
                  "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
                  "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

                  Comment


                  • Isnt funny how all the old dogs can see it but he cannot? ... effectively argued to de-bark himself.

                    Simpleton must be a special new breed of puppy

                    See the thing is, nobody could truly be that obtuse and verbose unless ...well, I cant say what's in somebody's heart but I can guess ... unless, this is simply politics masquerading as stupidity.

                    he is either as stupid as Hans (from the video) or he's the nasty fucker doing the dividing....there is no other position

                    This is not a debate.

                    Do not allow stupid to dictate what is justice
                    "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                    And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                    "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                    "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                    "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                      Let's see...
                      excellent, now we are getting somewhere.

                      Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                      * Groups that discriminate or promote hate speech can't do public demonstrations.
                      Wait hang on.
                      Please define H8te Speech ...seriously ... give us a concise definition.

                      And to discriminate is to discern one thing from another ... are all forms of discrimination ruled out?
                      Like how would you be able to decide what to eat?

                      Ok, fine you mean racial or political discrimination...duh, hang on Im confused again.... havent you decided that people with wrong-politic are different?
                      Damn, its getting difficult already.... like dude, your anti-discrimination horse just fell at the first hurdle.

                      You'll need more rules, regulations and muscle to get this job done.

                      Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                      - No covering the face is allow
                      - No weaponry
                      - No blocking traffic or usual cittie activities
                      - Stay on topic: keep your slogans, banners and materials relevant to the topic... for example: do not ask permits to demonstrate about a statue and come with a bunch of nazi symbols and white supremacy slogans that have nothing to do with the statue, or the pretended topic of the demonstrations... infractors may not get permits to future demonstrations.
                      I suppose all symbols such as flags, t-shirts, haircuts need regulating ... what about say tattoos?

                      Poor antiFa ... they're well and truly screwed here ... guess that would clinch it for them.

                      Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                      * Demonstrations on private property goes under actual laws and regulations, so everything OK, as long as there is not crimes or laud noises that disturb the neighbors or what not... basically, like any other party or gathering that individuals do in private property.
                      just asking ... could you please take the time enumerate the 'actual' Laws ...
                      We have different ones in Aust ...so you'd better do those too.

                      Getting hard again ...
                      "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one" - Charles Mackay

                      And therefore never send to know for whom the bell tolls; It tolls for thee. - Donne

                      "What we are seeing in this headless misandry is a grand display of the Tyranny of the Underdog: 'I am a wretchedly longstanding victim; therefore I own no burden of adult accountability, nor need to honor any restraint against my words and actions. In fact, all efforts to restrain me are only further proof of my oppressed condition.'
                      "It is the most perfect trump-card against accountable living ever devised." - Gladden Schrock

                      "What remains for most men in modern life is a world of expectation without reward, burden without honor and service without self" - Paul Elam

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by mr_e View Post
                        So I reckon, based on your own criteria, that would rule out ANTIFA on several grounds.
                        I am not even sure antifa is a group... i understood it was more of a tactic that several groups use, mostly anarchists?

                        But yeah, no covering face, so that will affect them.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Mifune View Post
                          Where does that leave the Black Panthers and Nation of Islam?
                          I don't know much about the black panthers... I understand that in the 70s or 80s it disintegrated, and recently a new group of people organized and toke over the name, though people from the old group have disapprove the new one... last "demonstration" i hear of from the new ones was that about 20 of the new ones show on in motorcycles and guns in front of some jail.. I have not idea what message they were trying to send to the people inside there... but yeah... that kind of demonstration is not cool, accordingly to my rules.

                          Nation of Islam here you are referring to an organization or here you are referring to the whole religion of Islam?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MatrixTransform View Post
                            excellent, now we are getting somewhere.


                            Wait hang on.
                            Please define H8te Speech ...seriously ... give us a concise definition.
                            Say things that dehumanize, or even worse advocate for violence or dead against other people.

                            And to discriminate is to discern one thing from another ... are all forms of discrimination ruled out?
                            Like how would you be able to decide what to eat?
                            Rejecting people because race, gender, nationality, religion, political ideas... and so on...

                            For example the KKK discriminate jews.
                            The girl scouts discriminate boys.
                            The masons discriminate women...

                            Ok, fine you mean racial or political discrimination...duh, hang on Im confused again.... havent you decided that people with wrong-politic are different?
                            Damn, its getting difficult already.... like dude, your anti-discrimination horse just fell at the first hurdle.
                            If the political idea is to discriminate people, then yes, this is a group that should not have public forum.

                            You'll need more rules, regulations and muscle to get this job done.
                            I though about it a little while during the day, and i came out with one more rule:

                            * When presenting the permit for a demonstration, along the paperwork there should be presented a petition with X number of signature,s identified by ID each signature... the header of this letter should specify that the people signing the document do intent to assist this event and they do recognize the leadership of the organisers for this event.

                            Then the organiser must be working close with the police department to help do the demonstration peacuffy...

                            I suppose all symbols such as flags, t-shirts, haircuts need regulating ... what about say tattoos?
                            I guess some flags maybe are OK... but the posters and chant definitely have to be relevant to the demonstration.

                            Poor antiFa ... they're well and truly screwed here ... guess that would clinch it for them.
                            I don't care.

                            just asking ... could you please take the time enumerate the 'actual' Laws ...
                            We have different ones in Aust ...so you'd better do those too.

                            Getting hard again ...
                            No I can't, I am goign to a party, sorry.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by mr_e View Post
                              I agree. Simpleman, just about everybody in this thread has been exceedingly kind to you, listened to you, and responded to your various points and arguments in good spirit and in good faith.
                              I think I have done the same...

                              And in return you have repeatedly accused people of harboring ill-intent, ulterior motives, being sympathetic to hateful thoughts, opinions and acts, and generally making accusations against people regarding thoughts and motivations...
                              Your interpretation...

                              I told Manalisys that he is defending the freedom of the neo-nazis, he responded that this is such a big "paradox", and then he elaborates that there is not easy, and pretty answer to this... and so on...

                              I told voidspawn that he is defending the freedom of speech of the neo-nazis... he responded with a lot of indignation, repeating over and over again that I call him a nazi lover... while he rant that I want to lock everybody... and so on...

                              So you make your own conclusions.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                                I am not even sure antifa is a group... i understood it was more of a tactic that several groups use, mostly anarchists?

                                But yeah, no covering face, so that will affect them.

                                They're enough of a group to have their own web site.
                                FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                                It's time to call it out for what it is.
                                == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


                                The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
                                http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

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