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  • Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
    One doesn't have to deny freedom of speech to specific "Nazi tallk" - it's enough to make a law against sedition and incitement to sedition,
    and the severity of penalties can be regulated as needed.
    My understanding of some words can be limited... I though sedition was about talking about attacking the government... nothing there about blacks, or jews, or immigrants... or I am missing something about this word?

    And we're back at paradox. How can one solve paradoxes?
    Wile we figure out... at leas t we should have best of 2 evils?

    So what is less evil, giving a platform to hate speech, or not giving the platform?

    Isn't that part of due process? The right to be arraigned before a judge within reasonable time?
    Probably... depending when you consider the process starts... I guess...

    The problem was that cops could arrest someone and keep them in the police station for months or years and never present them to a judge... so they cut down this waiting time to something like 3 to 5 days...

    That was the number calculated during the Nuremberg trials, yes.
    The number have some history too... for many years the claims of the revisionist included that the first time the number came into place was on the accusation in 1955... that is 10 years after the day the war was over... revisionist alleged that 10 years is a lot of time, and the number was made up because there was not references before it.. hence the holocaust was invented in 1955... eventually there have come documentation that talks about this number on times when the war was still on. for instance an article in the Times i think by 1943 says that there is 6 million jews being rounded up and tortured... So in this case the claim is that the number came way too early... hence they could not possible know it...

    The census did not help neither... as a previous census shows that there was around 6 million jews in the whole of europe... but of course... there is many that don't disclosure that they are jews, for fear of the prosecution... However the census number have being used as another argument against the holocaust.


    I would think it varies with historians' findings.
    I am not so optimistic about the findings... the bodies that get burned down,, you will not be able to count them, as well as the other several ways of disapearing the bodies... in Treblinka, for instance, they builded a farmhouse and plow the land in order to hide the traces of the mass burials... this was discovered out, but there was not diggings to count bodies, again it is an approximation...

    ... because people often confuse the general genocide against Jews with the killing of Jews in KZs; IIRC about half of the victims were killed there, but the other half of the victims were killed in "ethnic cleansing", with 1,5 million killed in Poland alone, beginning before the extermination camps, and about the same number killed by Sondereinsatzgruppen (or something like that) in Russia. But then again, my numbers may be out of date.
    I think it is important for the neo-nazis to convince themselves that they are the good guys, that they did not mass kill millions of people, and that they are the victims of a whole race of liars and criminals... This is fundamental to their whole ideological body, if they don't have this, they don't have nothing.

    Just out of curiosity: what is your aim in this discussion?
    In the beginning to point out the double standards of Trump by comparing the way he reacts to the attacks of a set of groups and the way he reacts to the attacks of a different set of groups...

    Eventually it degenerated in me pointing out this same double standard on some people in the forums... and as you can see... this have not being appreciated at all...

    So now I am planing to bring frequent documents from neo-nazi websites, in order to paint an accurate portrait of their ideas... as I have being told that my idea about them is distorted by the mainstream media and what not... and basically I am judging the whole group in nothing but my own hate... So I think it is good idea to bring their words here, and see if my rejection of them have to do with my hate or with their ideas...

    Talking about that... here the conclusion of an article published on the Anti Zionist League... the article argues not only that no jew die in a nazi holocaust, but that the jews killed 16 million arians in an holocaust of their own that they have manage to hide all this years:

    https://antizionistleague.com/2015/0...h-destruction/

    "As such the British Government’s declaration of war against Germany, her own race on the basis of Jewish financial dealings and the lie of ‘persecution’ only confirms that Britain had become a weapon of the Jews. This is further compounded by the fact that a situation of stalemate existed from 3rd September 1939 when war was declared as Germany never intended to attack or harm Great Britain or the British Empire. Bombing of civilian populations was instigated by Churchill on the May 11th 1940 breaking the stalemate and forcing German retaliation. While it has also been noted that under Churchill’s orders German medical relief was often shot down, the concept of civilian bombing indicates the desire to extinguish life on a dramatic scale rather than any notion of ‘justice’. Therefore, as a weapon of the Jews Britain and her European allies were used to wipe out the cream of Europe. Indeed under the cover of war incited by this people the Jewish tribe committed genocide. In this light it is not hard to see the Jewish motive behind the desecration of Berlin and Dresden."

    Comment


    • Originally posted by mr_e View Post
      They'd probably ban Love-speech... no posts about puppies or kittens allowed...
      "Aryan puppies only."

      M

      Comment


      • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
        I told Manalisys that he is defending the freedom of the neo-nazis
        No that it matters, but just for the record: I fear you may be mistaking me for someone else.
        I wrote a response to a reply you made to someone else.

        he responded that this is such a big "paradox"
        Perhaps this doesn't matter so much either, but .. why the scare quotes?
        Do you think there is no paradox?

        I think it is the same question as the death penalty.
        Some countries have decided that killing people is so abhorrent that they kill people who do that; iow., becoming that which they so abhor.
        You can walk that down all the way to that since silencing people is really bad, we should silence people want to silencing people.
        If I'm not much mistaken, it's almost a real-world - albeit social, not physical - version of Epimenides/Gödel.

        and then he elaborates that there is not easy, and pretty answer to this... and so on...
        I think the so far 34 pages in this thread suppport that there is no easy answer.
        Ain't all that pretty either, at the moment.

        M

        Comment


        • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
          My understanding of some words can be limited...
          Same here. I'm not a native English speaker.

          I though sedition was about talking about attacking the government... nothing there about blacks, or jews, or immigrants...
          or I am missing something about this word?
          AFAIK you are right. That is part semantics - call it "rabble-rousing", if you will - and part a matter of which justification one gives it.
          That is, which laws one supports this on.

          One doesn't have to enshrine all the SJW minority yammer in law.

          Instead, one might point to the US axiom that "all men are created equal"
          (and supply with detail from the UN Declaration of Human Rights, plus lots of things from the UK/US legal tradition).
          In order to guarantee it's citizens this, one has created institutions like the police, courts, laws, and a legislateive assembly.
          Their job is to make sure that everybody is created equal.

          And so, as long as this is government policy, anyone who claims that people are not created equal, that some group X is inferior, damaging, even dangerous, is in rebellion against the country and its laws; i.e. sedition.
          In that way, the laws that protect the state also protect its citizens, be they vegans or beefetarians.

          Wile we figure out... at leas t we should have best of 2 evils?
          Sure. Just roll out your parameter for measuring evils.

          So what is less evil, giving a platform to hate speech, or not giving the platform?
          In what time frame? 1 year, 5 years, 100 years?

          Let me just add that I think your propositions were fairly commonsensical. This is more or less a police matter.

          Probably... depending when you consider the process starts... I guess...
          I think that system is the original one, and it never stopped; however, there was a serious weakening during the "Warring States" period in the West, when the nantion state took over from failed empires - say, late medieval (1400) to late modern (1900). In ancient Germanic law, common to the Norse and other Germanics (including the Angles and Saxons) it was always the men of the clan or tribe who made laws an elected a man to lead them and rule them, i.e. a chief executive officer, half cardinal, half general.

          The problem was that cops could arrest someone and keep them in the police station for months or years and never present them to a judge... so they cut down this waiting time to something like 3 to 5 days...
          Indeed.

          The number have some history too... for many years the claims of the revisionist included that the first time the number came into place was on the accusation in 1955... that is 10 years after the day the war was over... revisionist alleged that 10 years is a lot of time, and the number was made up because there was not references before it.. hence the holocaust was invented in 1955... eventually there have come documentation that talks about this number on times when the war was still on. for instance an article in the Times i think by 1943 says that there is 6 million jews being rounded up and tortured... So in this case the claim is that the number came way too early... hence they could not possible know it...
          The census did not help neither... as a previous census shows that there was around 6 million jews in the whole of europe... but of course... there is many that don't disclosure that they are jews, for fear of the prosecution... However the census number have being used as another argument against the holocaust.
          One small point here may be that the Nazis used a different definition of "jewish" than census takers did.
          To the Nazis, there were more Jews around than anyone suspected, including most of the people of Jewish ancestry who were rounded up.

          But let me at this point invite my august fellow forum folk to ponder the inescapable inevitability, the absolute essentiality and fundamental necessity of philosophy.
          Once again we find ourselves in Pilate's sandals, asking "What is truth?" And only sound epistemology can validate any answers to that.
          If people had learned a little bit more critical thinking ...

          I am not so optimistic about the findings...
          But there are findings, as the archives are opened and files found.

          the bodies that get burned down,, you will not be able to count them, as well as the other several ways of disapearing the bodies... in Treblinka, for instance, they builded a farmhouse and plow the land in order to hide the traces of the mass burials... this was discovered out, but there was not diggings to count bodies, again it is an approximation...
          Yes, but I meant historians, not archaeologists and not pathologists. Historians don't dig, except in paper.

          I think it is important for the neo-nazis to convince themselves that they are the good guys, that they did not mass kill millions of people, and that they are the victims of a whole race of liars and criminals... This is fundamental to their whole ideological body, if they don't have this, they don't have nothing.
          Yes. Having an image of an enemy - of an "Other", to quote another enlightening thread - is what divides some peaceful aryan brother who just runs his farm while thinking he's better than POC, from the activist who likes to bash people in the head.

          In the beginning to point out the double standards of Trump
          You think he has standards?

          by comparing the way he reacts to the attacks of a set of groups and the way he reacts to the attacks of a different set of groups...
          This is a businessman-turned-politician, with a fling in media to boot; only the 'lawyer' part is missing from the most mistrusted professions.
          IOW, he's not Jesus. Different benchmark altogether.

          Eventually it degenerated in me pointing out this same double standard on some people in the forums... and as you can see... this have not being appreciated at all...
          Yes, it seems you are failing by both my standards ...

          So now I am planing to bring frequent documents from neo-nazi websites, in order to paint an accurate portrait of their ideas...
          I would suggest that you don't. It's not going to do AVfM any good - rich seams for quote miners, there.

          Talking about that... here the conclusion of an article published on the Anti Zionist League... the article argues not only that no jew die in a nazi holocaust, but that the jews killed 16 million arians in an holocaust of their own that they have manage to hide all this years:

          "As such the British Government’s declaration of war against Germany, her own race on the basis of Jewish financial dealings and the lie of ‘persecution’ only confirms that Britain had become a weapon of the Jews. This is further compounded by the fact that a situation of stalemate existed from 3rd September 1939 when war was declared as Germany never intended to attack or harm Great Britain or the British Empire. Bombing of civilian populations was instigated by Churchill on the May 11th 1940 breaking the stalemate and forcing German retaliation. While it has also been noted that under Churchill’s orders German medical relief was often shot down, the concept of civilian bombing indicates the desire to extinguish life on a dramatic scale rather than any notion of ‘justice’. Therefore, as a weapon of the Jews Britain and her European allies were used to wipe out the cream of Europe. Indeed under the cover of war incited by this people the Jewish tribe committed genocide. In this light it is not hard to see the Jewish motive behind the desecration of Berlin and Dresden."
          Germany didn't intend to harm Great Britain ... they only intended to harm Czechoslovakia, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia ... what a relief.
          AZL reads like someone cut two history books and one gothic novel to snippets, and threw them all in the air, and glued the random heaps together into one text.
          It's that old critical thinking thing again.

          I always want to ask these people what property associated with being Jewish that makes being Jewish so utterly bad in their eyes.
          To me, saying e.g. that 'Jewish people own a lot of media' or banks, or whatever, is like saying most people who work there are right-handed.
          It's provably true, but nothing follows from it.

          M

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
            Perhaps this doesn't matter so much either, but .. why the scare quotes?
            Do you think there is no paradox?
            I mostly relate paradox with a mixture of science and poetry... so... political paradoxes sound a bit foreign to me.

            I think it is the same question as the death penalty.
            Some countries have decided that killing people is so abhorrent that they kill people who do that; iow., becoming that which they so abhor.
            You can walk that down all the way to that since silencing people is really bad, we should silence people want to silencing people.
            If I'm not much mistaken, it's almost a real-world - albeit social, not physical - version of Epimenides/Gödel.
            With the difference that in my case it is not about silencing people, but... discouraging some speech...

            I think the so far 34 pages in this thread suppport that there is no easy answer.
            Ain't all that pretty either, at the moment.
            In the other hand... If We measure success by the number of views... I think I am the number one right now...

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
              One doesn't have to deny freedom of speech to specific "Nazi tallk" - it's enough to make a law against sedition and incitement to sedition,
              and the severity of penalties can be regulated as needed.


              And we're back at paradox. How can one solve paradoxes?


              Isn't that part of due process? The right to be arraigned before a judge within reasonable time?


              IIRC that's from Henry II's 1166 Assize of Clarendon, even before the 1215 Magna Charta, so it has some tradition already.


              That was the number calculated during the Nuremberg trials, yes.


              I would think it varies with historians' findings.


              ... because people often confuse the general genocide against Jews with the killing of Jews in KZs; IIRC about half of the victims were killed there, but the other half of the victims were killed in "ethnic cleansing", with 1,5 million killed in Poland alone, beginning before the extermination camps, and about the same number killed by Sondereinsatzgruppen (or something like that) in Russia. But then again, my numbers may be out of date.


              Just out of curiosity: what is your aim in this discussion?

              M
              You bring up an operative point here, "Sedition." In the US we are keenly aware of the various groups and their proclivities. We've had our eye on the very minority group of folks such as KKK and white nationalists(Nazis). We've been dealing with them for over a century and a half and are keen on keeping them in their place while keeping our values intact. Antifa and their ilk on the other hand are a different animal, they are actually the most "Seditious" threat to our founding principles and way of life.

              There is a false threat Narrative being spun...that there are a large numbers of race groups running rampant across the US(large in respect to participation and activity). Simply not the case when one knows the facts. Given our history this is an easy sell by those who want to undermine us. or as we often see...play victim for political gain. Something Feminists like to do with men and we often see from the American Left.
              ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
              virtue of character--practical/ethical wisdom--human flourishing

              It is not a battle to win but an attitude to share.
              AVFM Mission Statement
              sigpic

              Comment


              • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                My understanding of some words can be limited... I though sedition was about talking about attacking the government... nothing there about blacks, or jews, or immigrants... or I am missing something about this word?



                Wile we figure out... at leas t we should have best of 2 evils?

                So what is less evil, giving a platform to hate speech, or not giving the platform?



                Probably... depending when you consider the process starts... I guess...

                The problem was that cops could arrest someone and keep them in the police station for months or years and never present them to a judge... so they cut down this waiting time to something like 3 to 5 days...



                The number have some history too... for many years the claims of the revisionist included that the first time the number came into place was on the accusation in 1955... that is 10 years after the day the war was over... revisionist alleged that 10 years is a lot of time, and the number was made up because there was not references before it.. hence the holocaust was invented in 1955... eventually there have come documentation that talks about this number on times when the war was still on. for instance an article in the Times i think by 1943 says that there is 6 million jews being rounded up and tortured... So in this case the claim is that the number came way too early... hence they could not possible know it...

                The census did not help neither... as a previous census shows that there was around 6 million jews in the whole of europe... but of course... there is many that don't disclosure that they are jews, for fear of the prosecution... However the census number have being used as another argument against the holocaust.




                I am not so optimistic about the findings... the bodies that get burned down,, you will not be able to count them, as well as the other several ways of disapearing the bodies... in Treblinka, for instance, they builded a farmhouse and plow the land in order to hide the traces of the mass burials... this was discovered out, but there was not diggings to count bodies, again it is an approximation...



                I think it is important for the neo-nazis to convince themselves that they are the good guys, that they did not mass kill millions of people, and that they are the victims of a whole race of liars and criminals... This is fundamental to their whole ideological body, if they don't have this, they don't have nothing.



                In the beginning to point out the double standards of Trump by comparing the way he reacts to the attacks of a set of groups and the way he reacts to the attacks of a different set of groups...

                Eventually it degenerated in me pointing out this same double standard on some people in the forums... and as you can see... this have not being appreciated at all...

                So now I am planing to bring frequent documents from neo-nazi websites, in order to paint an accurate portrait of their ideas... as I have being told that my idea about them is distorted by the mainstream media and what not... and basically I am judging the whole group in nothing but my own hate... So I think it is good idea to bring their words here, and see if my rejection of them have to do with my hate or with their ideas...

                Talking about that... here the conclusion of an article published on the Anti Zionist League... the article argues not only that no jew die in a nazi holocaust, but that the jews killed 16 million arians in an holocaust of their own that they have manage to hide all this years:

                https://antizionistleague.com/2015/0...h-destruction/

                "As such the British Government’s declaration of war against Germany, her own race on the basis of Jewish financial dealings and the lie of ‘persecution’ only confirms that Britain had become a weapon of the Jews. This is further compounded by the fact that a situation of stalemate existed from 3rd September 1939 when war was declared as Germany never intended to attack or harm Great Britain or the British Empire. Bombing of civilian populations was instigated by Churchill on the May 11th 1940 breaking the stalemate and forcing German retaliation. While it has also been noted that under Churchill’s orders German medical relief was often shot down, the concept of civilian bombing indicates the desire to extinguish life on a dramatic scale rather than any notion of ‘justice’. Therefore, as a weapon of the Jews Britain and her European allies were used to wipe out the cream of Europe. Indeed under the cover of war incited by this people the Jewish tribe committed genocide. In this light it is not hard to see the Jewish motive behind the desecration of Berlin and Dresden."


                The final tally is really irrelevant, IMO. Just one more "holocaust" on top of a long line of "holocausts". Jews, Poles, Armenians, Russians, Cambodians, Rwandans, Sudanese, Chinese, Central Americans-- you name it. There have been millions and millions and millions of people slaughtered by ruthless and murderous people over the centuries (eons more probably)-- and most of them over somebody else's difference in ideologies. Who cares whether it was six million or eight million or eleven million or twenty million-- as terrible as it was-- the Jewish holocaust was one of the *SMALLER* ones, quite frankly.
                FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                It's time to call it out for what it is.
                == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


                The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
                http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
                  Same here. I'm not a native English speaker.

                  AFAIK you are right. That is part semantics - call it "rabble-rousing", if you will - and part a matter of which justification one gives it.
                  That is, which laws one supports this on.

                  One doesn't have to enshrine all the SJW minority yammer in law.

                  Instead, one might point to the US axiom that "all men are created equal"
                  (and supply with detail from the UN Declaration of Human Rights, plus lots of things from the UK/US legal tradition).
                  In order to guarantee it's citizens this, one has created institutions like the police, courts, laws, and a legislateive assembly.
                  Their job is to make sure that everybody is created equal.

                  And so, as long as this is government policy, anyone who claims that people are not created equal, that some group X is inferior, damaging, even dangerous, is in rebellion against the country and its laws; i.e. sedition.
                  In that way, the laws that protect the state also protect its citizens, be they vegans or beefetarians.
                  For me there is a fundamental difference between saying that all are created equal, and all are born with equal rights...

                  Here the copy of the Declaration of Human Rights:

                  "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."
                  http://www.un.org/en/universal-decla...-human-rights/

                  I think they call in English. your version of it "equity" and my version of it "equality". Understanding that equity will actually create inequality... or the reasons why I dislike feminism... But that is basically the topic of another debate.

                  Sure. Just roll out your parameter for measuring evils.

                  In what time frame? 1 year, 5 years, 100 years?

                  Let me just add that I think your propositions were fairly commonsensical. This is more or less a police matter.
                  yeah, I have not idea why someone would be interested in asking me to formulate in this terms.. but...

                  One small point here may be that the Nazis used a different definition of "jewish" than census takers did.
                  To the Nazis, there were more Jews around than anyone suspected, including most of the people of Jewish ancestry who were rounded up.
                  For what I can tell... the orthodox definition of jew could have include even more people...

                  I don't know how familiar are you with this... but basically in jewish tradition you carry the profession of your father and the blood of your mother.

                  So if your mother is a jew, then you are a jew, but if your mother is not, then you are not, even if your father is a jew... blood is matrilineal.

                  So if the mother, of your mother, of your mother of your mother... was a jew. then you are a jew. by this definition... it was carried in the women linage.

                  For the nazis.. I understand they don't accept more than 25% of jewish blood, this counting all the grandparents... if any of the 4 was a jew, then you are disqualified by the nazi standard.

                  So if each woman have, lest say 7 kids and 3 of them are girls... and we take this back few generations over... potentially you will have more jews than if you apply the nazi standard...

                  And then you have all the other phenomena that are to take into account, crypto judaism is a very complicated thing to understand...

                  But there are findings, as the archives are opened and files found.
                  No so much lately...

                  Also, modern germans are basically sick and tired of this topic, they really want to leave it on the pass, so as time goes by they are less interested on digging, searching, and finding... I understand, if you want to get any research moving, in Germany, you have to tell them that you are looking for the nazi gold... everything else is a slow pile of paperwork, and permits and people wanting you to just leave it...

                  Yes, but I meant historians, not archaeologists and not pathologists. Historians don't dig, except in paper.
                  Oh yeah... revisionists will not quit it if you don't show them the bones of 6 million people... and even then... who knows?

                  You think he has standards?
                  yes, I think his awkwardness comes from the fact that he have being wealthy all his life, so money isolate him from some parts of reality that are not pleasant... and on that gold bubble he developed all the weird ideas he have...

                  This is a businessman-turned-politician, with a fling in media to boot; only the 'lawyer' part is missing from the most mistrusted professions.
                  IOW, he's not Jesus. Different benchmark altogether.
                  Most of my critics at him are not moral.. though some are...

                  Talking here simple logic... is that man capable of unification the country on their several divisions? All he have done is separating people even more... even if that is not his intention, that is his results... and this is just 1 point to criticize about his administration.

                  Yes, it seems you are failing by both my standards ...
                  No Jesus here neither?

                  I would suggest that you don't. It's not going to do AVfM any good - rich seams for quote miners, there.
                  Well... so what is it? we discourage their speech or we give them a megaphone?

                  Germany didn't intend to harm Great Britain ... they only intended to harm Czechoslovakia, Poland, Russia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria and Yugoslavia ... what a relief.
                  AZL reads like someone cut two history books and one gothic novel to snippets, and threw them all in the air, and glued the random heaps together into one text.
                  It's that old critical thinking thing again.
                  I think the nazis did wanted to harm Britain... that article pays with the sneaky nazi tactics... they signed an agreement of not invading russia... what they do??? Many examples of this... so if you go for what they say, yeah they never wanted to hurt anyone... if you go for what they do...

                  Just pay attention to the words they use... For the Nazis there is a difference between England and Britain... England is, of course, the land of Angels, the land of white people.. Britain is the corrupted replacement that the jews put in place... nazis operate on those terms...

                  Here an article from hebrewnations.com explaining the meaning of the word british and it's possible jewish meaning:

                  http://hebrewnations.com/articles/bi.../brit-ish.html

                  This is the same words games the nazis used to explain why they attack Britain... in order to cleanse it and restore England...

                  Nazis were very mystical, this way, they had their pagan traditions, and for many germans Hitler was more than a political leader, he was a religious leader too, if not an incarnation of god.

                  Also other recurrent nazi topic in their propaganda against Britain was the prominence of masonry... being the place of origin of the first grand masonic lodge, and with it, basically, of speculative masonry.

                  I always want to ask these people what property associated with being Jewish that makes being Jewish so utterly bad in their eyes.
                  To me, saying e.g. that 'Jewish people own a lot of media' or banks, or whatever, is like saying most people who work there are right-handed.
                  It's provably true, but nothing follows from it.
                  Accordingly to the nazis, the jews was not a raze, but an anti-race... created by a demon entity for the purpose of destroying the white raze. For them the evil is not in banking, or media or anything of that... but in the jewish blood.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                    For me there is a fundamental difference between saying that all are created equal, and all are born with equal rights...

                    Here the copy of the Declaration of Human Rights:

                    "All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights. They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood."
                    http://www.un.org/en/universal-decla...-human-rights/

                    I think they call in English. your version of it "equity" and my version of it "equality". Understanding that equity will actually create inequality... or the reasons why I dislike feminism... But that is basically the topic of another debate.



                    yeah, I have not idea why someone would be interested in asking me to formulate in this terms.. but...



                    For what I can tell... the orthodox definition of jew could have include even more people...

                    I don't know how familiar are you with this... but basically in jewish tradition you carry the profession of your father and the blood of your mother.

                    So if your mother is a jew, then you are a jew, but if your mother is not, then you are not, even if your father is a jew... blood is matrilineal.

                    So if the mother, of your mother, of your mother of your mother... was a jew. then you are a jew. by this definition... it was carried in the women linage.

                    For the nazis.. I understand they don't accept more than 25% of jewish blood, this counting all the grandparents... if any of the 4 was a jew, then you are disqualified by the nazi standard.

                    So if each woman have, lest say 7 kids and 3 of them are girls... and we take this back few generations over... potentially you will have more jews than if you apply the nazi standard...

                    And then you have all the other phenomena that are to take into account, crypto judaism is a very complicated thing to understand...



                    No so much lately...

                    Also, modern germans are basically sick and tired of this topic, they really want to leave it on the pass, so as time goes by they are less interested on digging, searching, and finding... I understand, if you want to get any research moving, in Germany, you have to tell them that you are looking for the nazi gold... everything else is a slow pile of paperwork, and permits and people wanting you to just leave it...



                    Oh yeah... revisionists will not quit it if you don't show them the bones of 6 million people... and even then... who knows?



                    yes, I think his awkwardness comes from the fact that he have being wealthy all his life, so money isolate him from some parts of reality that are not pleasant... and on that gold bubble he developed all the weird ideas he have...



                    Most of my critics at him are not moral.. though some are...

                    Talking here simple logic... is that man capable of unification the country on their several divisions? All he have done is separating people even more... even if that is not his intention, that is his results... and this is just 1 point to criticize about his administration.



                    No Jesus here neither?



                    Well... so what is it? we discourage their speech or we give them a megaphone?



                    I think the nazis did wanted to harm Britain... that article pays with the sneaky nazi tactics... they signed an agreement of not invading russia... what they do??? Many examples of this... so if you go for what they say, yeah they never wanted to hurt anyone... if you go for what they do...

                    Just pay attention to the words they use... For the Nazis there is a difference between England and Britain... England is, of course, the land of Angels, the land of white people.. Britain is the corrupted replacement that the jews put in place... nazis operate on those terms...

                    Here an article from hebrewnations.com explaining the meaning of the word british and it's possible jewish meaning:

                    http://hebrewnations.com/articles/bi.../brit-ish.html

                    This is the same words games the nazis used to explain why they attack Britain... in order to cleanse it and restore England...

                    Nazis were very mystical, this way, they had their pagan traditions, and for many germans Hitler was more than a political leader, he was a religious leader too, if not an incarnation of god.

                    Also other recurrent nazi topic in their propaganda against Britain was the prominence of masonry... being the place of origin of the first grand masonic lodge, and with it, basically, of speculative masonry.



                    Accordingly to the nazis, the jews was not a raze, but an anti-race... created by a demon entity for the purpose of destroying the white raze. For them the evil is not in banking, or media or anything of that... but in the jewish blood.
                    This is not a response to all of your post here but it does remind me of my personal situation and an irony of sorts. One of my personal friends and I graduated from high school in one of the wealthiest communities in the US. Most of our fellow classmates(we all keep in touch on social media) are college educated, privileged and ardently left wing. My friend is a Jew(privileged and successful), I'm from a very humble background with a grandfather who is a Jew(I'm not and have never considered myself a Jew, I'm an atheist). In all these politics he and I are very much in alignment/see things the same way, and often in conflict with our fellow classmates. It seems odd how some take on the moniker of not being 'anti semitic," claim to be anti-Nazi and support Antifa and the left who support Palestine and want the Israeli state abolished, while at the same time calling themselves Liberal.

                    I'd posit, our fellow classmates are bitten by the progressive agenda as I once was, and are not stepping back and looking from a higher altitude, if you will.
                    ethikē aretē--phronesis--eudaimonia
                    virtue of character--practical/ethical wisdom--human flourishing

                    It is not a battle to win but an attitude to share.
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                    • Originally posted by mr_e View Post
                      The final tally is really irrelevant, IMO. Just one more "holocaust" on top of a long line of "holocausts". Jews, Poles, Armenians, Russians, Cambodians, Rwandans, Sudanese, Chinese, Central Americans-- you name it. There have been millions and millions and millions of people slaughtered by ruthless and murderous people over the centuries (eons more probably)-- and most of them over somebody else's difference in ideologies. Who cares whether it was six million or eight million or eleven million or twenty million-- as terrible as it was-- the Jewish holocaust was one of the *SMALLER* ones, quite frankly.
                      Well if the debate was between 6 millions and 8 millions, I agree with your point.

                      But if the debate is between 6 millions a 2 thousand... then I think there is a discrepancy there that kinda need to be addressed. maybe no in this forums, but somewhere.

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                      • Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
                        Once again we find ourselves in Pilate's sandals, asking "What is truth?" And only sound epistemology can validate any answers to that.
                        If people had learned a little bit more critical thinking ...

                        M
                        FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                        It's time to call it out for what it is.
                        == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


                        The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
                        http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

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                        • Originally posted by simpleman View Post
                          I don't know much about the black panthers... I understand that in the 70s or 80s it disintegrated, and recently a new group of people organized and toke over the name, though people from the old group have disapprove the new one... last "demonstration" i hear of from the new ones was that about 20 of the new ones show on in motorcycles and guns in front of some jail.. I have not idea what message they were trying to send to the people inside there... but yeah... that kind of demonstration is not cool, accordingly to my rules.

                          Nation of Islam here you are referring to an organization or here you are referring to the whole religion of Islam?
                          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nation_of_Islam
                          "...but when she goes off you, she will not just walk away, she will walk away with your fucking skin in a jar." ~~ DoctorRandomercam
                          "The laws of man, they don't apply when blood gets in a woman's eye" - The Black Keys

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                          • Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
                            IOW, he's not Jesus. Different benchmark altogether.

                            M
                            No, haven't you heard? That's more Hillary's gig...

                            HILLARY CLINTON LOSING TO TRUMP WAS LIKE JESUS'S CRUCIFIXION, ACCORDING TO HER PASTOR
                            http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clin...otional-649770

                            ‘Jesus feminists’ see Hillary Clinton as a role model. They just won’t vote for her.
                            https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...illary-clinton
                            FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                            It's time to call it out for what it is.
                            == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


                            The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
                            http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

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                            • Originally posted by Manalysis View Post
                              I always want to ask these people what property associated with being Jewish that makes being Jewish so utterly bad in their eyes.
                              To me, saying e.g. that 'Jewish people own a lot of media' or banks, or whatever, is like saying most people who work there are right-handed.
                              It's provably true, but nothing follows from it.

                              M
                              Yup. Me too. I have never understood the demonization of Jewish people. It seems a bit irrational quite frankly.
                              FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                              It's time to call it out for what it is.
                              == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


                              The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
                              http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

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                              • Originally posted by Grumpy Old Man View Post
                                You bring up an operative point here, "Sedition." In the US we are keenly aware of the various groups and their proclivities. We've had our eye on the very minority group of folks such as KKK and white nationalists(Nazis). We've been dealing with them for over a century and a half and are keen on keeping them in their place while keeping our values intact. Antifa and their ilk on the other hand are a different animal, they are actually the most "Seditious" threat to our founding principles and way of life.

                                There is a false threat Narrative being spun...that there are a large numbers of race groups running rampant across the US(large in respect to participation and activity). Simply not the case when one knows the facts. Given our history this is an easy sell by those who want to undermine us. or as we often see...play victim for political gain. Something Feminists like to do with men and we often see from the American Left.

                                We've dealt with this style of threat before. We have national history and understanding of the issues involved.

                                "Are you now or have you ever been..." McCarthy-ism and the Red menace.

                                Wikipedia - McCarthyism
                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarthyism

                                Wikipedia - Joseph McCarthy
                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy

                                Wikipedia - Red Scare
                                https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Scare


                                Feminists do it to men every time they accuse them of being Misogynists. It's pretty much the same tactic.
                                FEMINISM is a HATE GROUP - Feminists are HATEFUL PEOPLE
                                It's time to call it out for what it is.
                                == REJECT FEMINISM. EMBRACE HUMANITY ==


                                The World of Men - Men's Rights / MGTOW / Sites of Interest to Men
                                http://forums.avoiceformen.com/showt...nterest-to-Men

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